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Author Topic: Public sector pay cap.  (Read 11467 times)

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LC0112G

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #15 on: 02 July 2017, 14:41:03 »

Let's say she was on £60000 in 2010, it's as good a figure as any. We were entitled, as everyone was, to child benefit. That was taken away because anyone earning £60000 lost the lot. (Two people earning £45000 each kept it). So that's minus £80 a month.

The sensible thing to do would be make an £8K (net) contribution to a private pension plan. The Govt then top this up to £10K, and refund £2K of tax to her, so the net cost to her is £6K for a £10K pension pot. This also reduces her taxable gross pay by £10K to £50K, so you are then entitled to child benefit. £80 p/m = £960 p/a, so the true cost of that £10K pension pot becomes a tad over £5K.

She can also take this private pension at  55, so she won't have to work that extra 7 years if she doesn't want to.

She used to be contracted out of NI payments, which meant she payed a slightly reduced rate. That ended and, I think, cost about £15 a month.

Yes, but this also means that her state pension can be the maximum £149 p/w instead of the old SP which was less than £120 p/w for someone with no S2P/SERPS entitlement. So she's paying £15 p/m extra for an eventual £30 p/m additional SP.

As for it being a golden pension.....well...it might have been.....once.

No - it was once a golden pension encrusted with diamonds and other precious stones. Now it's 'only' a golden pension which everyone has to pay extra taxes to pay for.
« Last Edit: 02 July 2017, 14:46:27 by LC0112G »
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #16 on: 02 July 2017, 14:52:23 »

Reward for failure in banking isn't common. It applied to those "masters of the universe" right at the very top of the food chain, such as Gordon Browns friend Fred Goodwin, who thought they had a divine right to earn millions regardless of what happened in the real world. Move down the chain a little and you find clever, very hard working people, who used to earn good money, but don't earn huge wages these days, and are leaving the industry in their droves.
There is a brain drain in banking at the moment and it will cause us problems a few years down the line.
I know a bloke who worked under extreme duress for Crispin "odius" Odey for a long time. Odey threatened to fire him every week, just because he could. Then about 6 months ago he actually fired him, despite the fact the guy had made him millions.
He was distraught at first, but now wants to do anything but go back to banking.
A couple of months ago my daughter (despite doing her job very well) didn't get on at all with her new boss. As she stepped off the tube one night after work she had a snapchat message "do you want to jump or be pushed ?" That was probably the end of her career in banking.
Her previous boss, who is brilliant at his job, walked out last week and has vowed never to return to the industry, come hell or high water.
Its a job no-one wants to do anymore, apart from those mortaged to the hilt and are resigned to a life of misery to attempt to keep up their lifestyle.
The financial director of the company I work was down in the city last week and said he had never seen it so quiet and lacking in life.
Its like someone has sucked all the enthusiasm out of the place.
It may amuse the ignorant, who think "serves them all right", but when our pension funds are being invested by people who don't know how to make money in the future, we will all be crying about being skint in old age.
« Last Edit: 02 July 2017, 14:54:33 by Migv6 »
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STEMO

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #17 on: 02 July 2017, 15:13:51 »

Let's say she was on £60000 in 2010, it's as good a figure as any. We were entitled, as everyone was, to child benefit. That was taken away because anyone earning £60000 lost the lot. (Two people earning £45000 each kept it). So that's minus £80 a month.

The sensible thing to do would be make an £8K (net) contribution to a private pension plan. The Govt then top this up to £10K, and refund £2K of tax to her, so the net cost to her is £6K for a £10K pension pot. This also reduces her taxable gross pay by £10K to £50K, so you are then entitled to child benefit. £80 p/m = £960 p/a, so the true cost of that £10K pension pot becomes a tad over £5K.

She can also take this private pension at  55, so she won't have to work that extra 7 years if she doesn't want to.

She used to be contracted out of NI payments, which meant she payed a slightly reduced rate. That ended and, I think, cost about £15 a month.

Yes, but this also means that her state pension can be the maximum £149 p/w instead of the old SP which was less than £120 p/w for someone with no S2P/SERPS entitlement. So she's paying £15 p/m extra for an eventual £30 p/m additional SP.

As for it being a golden pension.....well...it might have been.....once.

No - it was once a golden pension encrusted with diamonds and other precious stones. Now it's 'only' a golden pension which everyone has to pay extra taxes to pay for.
I wish I'd have realised the bit about the pp contributions a few years ago  :(
However, I only used £60K as an example, she'd have had to squirrel away a lot more than £8K to get herself down to £50K pa, and when there's only one wage coming in, it's not so easy to set money aside.
It just goes to show, though, it's very often worth paying for this kind of advice.
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LC0112G

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #18 on: 02 July 2017, 16:21:22 »

It just goes to show, though, it's very often worth paying for this kind of advice.

Thanks. Where should I send my invoice ? :)
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STEMO

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #19 on: 02 July 2017, 16:29:22 »

It just goes to show, though, it's very often worth paying for this kind of advice.

Thanks. Where should I send my invoice ? :)
Send it to Lord Opti, he'll pay it from his loose wad change.  ;D
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Shackeng

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #20 on: 02 July 2017, 16:37:20 »

What some may not immediately recognise, is that although you may be on a Public Sector pay scheme with its associated pension, if you retire during an extended pay freeze, as I did from the RAF during the Callaghan Govt., you get a permanently reduced pension, so, for example in my case, someone of the same rank and service who retired a year or so later than me on a post freeze substantially increased pay level, has now had 40 years pension starting at considerably more, plus all the compounded increases since. This is known as the Pension's Trough, and although the Forces Pension Society tried to get redress, successive Governments, while shedding crocodile tears, have refused. I suspect that if it is ever fixed, it will be when 99% of us are dead, (about now then ;D), as they did with the War Widow's pensions. :y
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Rods2

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #21 on: 02 July 2017, 18:38:50 »

In my opinion, there are many good reasons to keep the pay cap, and tuition fees etc. etc.
But STEMO has kind of hit the nail on the head. If the Tories don't change these things, then many public sector workers and students will put Corbyn in number 10, McDonnell in number11 and Diane Abbot in the home office, somewhere between the end of this year and 5 years time.
Then the economy (and the whole of the country) will be completely facked in a way that only people who are 55 or older will be able to remember.
It will have to involve some kind of tax increases and loosening of the purse strings. I would like to think they will have the balls to scrap HS2 and slash the foreign aid budget, but I wont hold my breath,
Someone will just have to explain to future generations that although our generations left them with unimaginable levels of debt, if we hadn't, there wouldn't be a country left for them at all.
We live in strange and scary times.  :(

The cap should stay. Public sector pay is still generally above their private sector equivalent. If you run your own business at the beginning of each month you have effectively no money, by the end of it you have to earn enough to pay your bills and then pay yourself. If it is a limited company and you have made a gross profit of say £5,000 (same as STEMO SWMBO £60,000pa). So for taking risks (Only 41% of startups are going after 5 years which means 59% have failed and often lost the people involved money, including houses etc. and may have ended up bankrupt), probably working longer hours as the average business person works 60 hours a week, I then have to pay out of this employer and employee NI plus tax. If somebody asked me about starting a business today, like in the 1970's, I'd tell them not to bother, as the risk v gain and what you are left with as your effective tax rates rapidly go above 50% and then you have another 20% sales tax on the majority of things you buy, so your spending power can rapidly end up at about 30-40% of what you have grafted to earn.

As an example the cheapest way to generally pay yourself is by dividends. At a 40% tax rate if you pay yourself £1000, you have to pay 19% CGT on this profit (you can only pay dividends out of profits) which reduces it to £810 and then 32.5% tax which brings it down to £546.75 making my tax rate about 45% and above 100k which is taxed at 37.5% I'm left with £506.25 at tax rate of about 50%. If I spend the money on 20% VAT rated items, the effective spending power of my original £1000 is £437.30 and £405.00 respectively and of course above £100k you also have your tax allowence withdrawn at a rate of £1 for every £2 you earn. The figures are all much worse if you pay yourself through PAYE.

In 1991 the Government spent about 33% of GPD it is now 43%, which is the highest since the 1970's early 80's and most tax rises now end up earning the Government less money as the are now the wrong side of the Laffer curve in most areas. Tony BLiar & Gordon McRuin has long term fubered this country. Ever rising spending and 2008 with an out of control deficit (tax deferred) was their grand exit. We have be fortunate where the UK is one of the least worst places to do business in the EU, so we have had some growth and reasonable unemployment, but don't count on either if Marxist Corbyn and Co get near the levers of power. Leaving the EU gives us the chance to get ahead again like in the 1980's, but I can't see any party or politician with the policies to take advantage of this.

STEMO if more and more people like me say, we just can't be bothered to generate the wealth like happened in the 1970's I would suggest instead of taking your dog for a walk you start growing some of Labour's money trees as no private sector wealth creation = no tax = no public sector. Tax money can ONLY come from private sector wealth creation, public sector pay taxes are only a discount on the total public sector pay bill.

It is easy to take freedom and democracy for granted, but once lost, very costly to get it back. I'm already working on my UK exit contingency escape plans for the 2022 election, as I remember only too well the 1970's and under Corbyn it will be much, much worse, more like Venezuela if the UK is lucky and more like Cuba if it is not. >:( >:( >:(

I've recently been reading about the UK constitution where many Western democracies are currently under attack by extreme left and right wing authoritarian political parties. In the UK it is frightening easy if you are so inclined to radically change it including turning the UK into a one party state, all you need is a Parliamentary majority. :o :o :o
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STEMO

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #22 on: 02 July 2017, 18:50:51 »

I stopped reading after 'the cap should stay'.
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #23 on: 02 July 2017, 18:53:36 »

I don't disagree with Rods financial points, but the political reality is that if it costs money we don't have and cant afford to keep the marxists out of power, then it will still be money well spent.
The left wing fascism which is now running rampant in this country needs killing off, not given an opportunity to seize power.
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STEMO

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #24 on: 02 July 2017, 18:57:23 »

Although number 10 and boring Phil haven't said they are even considering a change, the momentum (sorry) that is being gained by all the news reporting would make it feel like a U turn if they didn't. The power of the media.
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TheBoy

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #25 on: 02 July 2017, 19:27:51 »

The cap needs to stay in place. Public sector workers should be grateful they get more than private sector workers have had over the past few years, and about 1% more than my company is giving anyone this year.

As we are in recession again (not yet technically, due to the delay on figures), there can't be any scope for any real payrises this year, or for the next couple, so we'll all have to suffer  a real term reduction, with inflation above 2%, and only going to get worse with the Bank of England only having one option left to curb it going mental...
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #26 on: 02 July 2017, 20:52:44 »

Are you prepared to take the risk of that allowing Corbyn into number 10 ? It is a very real risk indeed.
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Rods2

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #27 on: 02 July 2017, 22:09:47 »

Are you prepared to take the risk of that allowing Corbyn into number 10 ? It is a very real risk indeed.

A week is a long time in politics. They should keep the cap until a year before the next election and then have a giveaway budget. This formula has been used many times and when it doesn't work then almost anything they do will make very little difference. :-[

I think we maybe an election away from what Hayek warned us about that people get so complacent about freedom and democracy that it may well take an authoritative regime to make people realise what they have lost. If Corbyn gets in I'm will be gone from the UK within days as I'm under no illusions for what is in store. The fact that he is trying to bring down a democratically elected Government through street violence should alarm everbody and show where this is heading if he ever gets near the keys to No 10. >:( >:( >:(
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #28 on: 02 July 2017, 22:33:00 »

We may already be less than a year from the next election.  ;)
I notice that Momentum ( who now effectively are the Labour party) removed a clause from their constitution earlier this year which banned members from taking part in violence.  ::)
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Varche

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Re: Public sector pay cap.
« Reply #29 on: 02 July 2017, 23:07:50 »

Not living in the UK i havent a handle on the difficulty inflation is or maybe causing so  what is up in price ?
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