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[Varche]

Probably one for MigV6 but is this seamless border proposal going to be a charter for someone to make money (probably illegally)? I cannot think of any obvious ways but the very concept of not having customs/checkpoints between the Eu and the UK surely will be a green light for beating the system. Maybe that is factored in to the governments thoughts. Maybe it also relies on the solution with the Eu being "no change from current trading arrangements" . If so it might be a clever gambit on UK's behalf so long as it doesn't unravel and result in undoing the peace agreements.

[Sir Tigger KC]

As I said in your other thread, I don't see how they can sort the border arrangements without sorting the customs arrangements at the same time. 

The two are inextricably linked. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

People have made money from the Irish border ever since it existed, and no matter what the arrangements are, they always will.
Irish country folk who look like they haven't got tuppence, are usually the shrewdest, and among the wealthiest people I have ever met.
I don't see how the UK can have a land border with the EU, which will effectively be an open border, but time will tell I suppose.
Personally,I think someones bluff needs calling on "The peace process". They use it as a threat to get everything and anything they want.
People forget that in the mid 90,s the IRA effectively surrendered, due to the flow of $$$ drying up, and a process of a dignified cessation of hostilities was being negotiated with the Major govt.
Then Blair got into power and the whole thing went horribly wrong. So, as I said, I think its time to call their bluff.
After all the terrorism in the Western world over the last 20 years, they would find it very difficult to drum up much sympathy or support anywhere.
In the end, the border needs to be effective at stopping uncontrolled immigration and any kind of terrorism into the UK, and if people start using it as a method of sneaking in by the back door, it will need to be as hard a border as is required to stop that. Even if it means The Donald sending his brickies across the Atlantic for a bit of practice before they start the big job in Texas.

[Rods2]

Don't mention red diesel.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

A bigger industry than farming in rural Ireland. Not as big, lucrative or as much fun as Poteen production though. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think we'll end up with a hardish border with Ireland and strangely I think it will be the Irish Government that will insist on it, as they will be worried about a future low tax regime in the UK undermining their tax revenues. 

I see no reason why technology can't be used, with a trusted trader/citizen scheme where people and businesses register and then number plate/facial recognition cameras are used so these people can pass freely.   

Anyone or a vehicle not recognised gets pulled! 

[LC0112G]

I think we'll end up with a hardish border with Ireland and strangely I think it will be the Irish Government that will insist on it, as they will be worried about a future low tax regime in the UK undermining their tax revenues. 

I see no reason why technology can't be used, with a trusted trader/citizen scheme where people and businesses register and then number plate/facial recognition cameras are used so these people can pass freely.   

Anyone or a vehicle not recognised gets pulled! 

My attitude would be that HMG are not going to pay anythign more than they do now for any customs/immigration/policing of the NI/Eire border for entry or exit into/from NI of anyone or anything.

If Eire/EU want to put customs/immigration controls in for people/goods travelling from NI into Eire or vice-verca, then it all goes on the Eire side of the border and they can pay for it.

Eire is not in Schengen, so the problem of illegal immigration of non EU citizens to the UK won't be any worse than it already is, and such individuals would have to get to Eire first before then crossing to NI and thence to the mainland. Ditto with duty-able goods.

The NI/Eire border is un-policable, so it's pointless to throw good money after bad to try and implement unworkable policies.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

It actually is reasonably police-able as was demonstrated in the 70,s. Minor roads were blown up so they had 10 foot deep craters and the more major roads had large security checkpoints. Most people probably dont want to see that scenario again, but it could be done if deemed necessary.
Not many borders are completely watertight though, and duty able goods (as well as arms, explosives etc.) have always got through by going across fields on the back of a tractor & trailer and suchlike.
Imo, the UK Govt.need to make it clear in any agreement, that they want the border to be as open as possible, but reserve the right to take necessary steps if events - illegals, duty fraud, security - show it needs to be done.
To do otherwise would be a serious dereliction of their duty.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Although Ireland is not in Schengen at present that state of affairs could change and although that's probably unlikely you never know!     There have been recent noises from Brussels that all members should adopt the Euro and Schengen. 

If there is the political will then any border is policable, and the UK has operated one of the hardest borders in recent history on the border between Hong Kong and China before the hand over of sovereignty in 1997. 

Even 20 -30 years ago technology was the key with that border and it bristled with cameras, sensors and patrols. There was a 'touch base' policy that anyone who made it across could stay in Hong Kong, probably for two reasons in that if they could get across undetected then they deserved to stay and if they were sent back to China they probably would have been executed!   

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

We wont need to worry about it in the long term anyway, as its only a matter of time before their EU empire collapsed around them. 

[STEMO]

A bigger industry than farming in rural Ireland. Not as big, lucrative or as much fun as Poteen production though. 

Poteen.....pronounced pot-cheen......my mate actually went blind on that.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

That's quite common. Death isn't unheard of after a few glasses of a dodgy batch.
When I was 17 I was best man at a mates wedding. I was very nervous, so his brother gave me a glass of something to calm my nerves.
It turned out to be poteen. Apparently it all went very well, but to this day I have no recollection whatsoever of the events of the day. 

[Rods2]

That's quite common. Death isn't unheard of after a few glasses of a dodgy batch.
When I was 17 I was best man at a mates wedding. I was very nervous, so his brother gave me a glass of something to calm my nerves.
It turned out to be poteen. Apparently it all went very well, but to this day I have no recollection whatsoever of the events of the day. 

Sounds like Ukraine village Vodka is more reliable. Had a session with my BIL pacing myself thinking it was 40% until I got up and my legs were like Bambi. Afterwards, he told me it was 90%!

[omega2018]

People forget that in the mid 90,s the IRA effectively surrendered, due to the flow of $$$ drying up, and a process of a dignified cessation of hostilities was being negotiated with the Major govt.

funny i thought they won . their two most senior people seemed to end up in goverment . 

i recall it was the city of london bombings in 1993 that made the financial organisations make Major concede.  the city realised that despite the OTT (for the time) number plate recognition big brother zone and checkpoints everywhere they couldn't stop another one and that big companies would move to Frankfurt or Paris.

Not to mention the ira very nearly succeeded in killing thatcher in 1984.   

as to the flow of $$ drying up, the city bombing cost the ira £3,000 and did between £350mill and £1 billion of damage.  do the maths.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

They did win, sort of, due to Blair coming to power and giving them everything they wanted apart from the one thing they really wanted.
It was understood that in the longer term, the EU abolishing nation states within Europe would take care of that problem anyway.
Which is why all the usual suspects over there are bleating so loudly now about Brexit.
The $$ supply being cut off was a very short version of the reasons for them wanting to stop the campaign.
The world was changing, support even in their heartlands was on the wane. Support from the U.S (not just money) was also on the wane, but there was one reason much more important than any of those.
The British Govt. had decided to go after McGuinness. It was well known that he was a mass murderer, and the RUC and others were well into the process of building a strong case to put him behind bars for the rest of his days. I was told that he was probably within a year or so of being put away for good.
Cutting the head off the snake was the new tactic to be implemented.
His arse started getting very twitchy, and he suddenly found the prospect of being projected as Irelands answer to Mandela, very appealing indeed
The rest, as they say, is history..