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[albitz]

totally agree  

[Jay w]

And that is precisely the trouble with the benefits system!  Scrap it!  Make people go to work, if they don't, no money, no food, die.  The government are too bloody gay over the whole issue.  There are very few people in this country who are unable to work in one form or another.

i don't agree with scrapping it........

I do believe there is a fairer system, ensure that people are not allowed to claim until such time as they have contributed something to the state.

Now i am sure that there will be people who have exception, for example those who have a severe issue that means work is a complete non starter.
My wife suffers from ME, now i know there are people around who see this as a skivers desease, and trust me i have had a few arguments with people about this. She has worked for just shy of 20 years, has never taken anything in benefits, now my view is that she is entitled to have what she is entitled to and she should not be made to feel guilty for it as well, and the same goes for any genuine case as well.

On the other hands my stepson, who at one point had not done an days work in his life wanted to claim job seekers......there is no way on earth he should be entitled, up to this point he had only contributed  chaos and misery, he had put bugger all in the pot and so should be made to go and find a job before asking for benefits.

you see it in selected areas of Plymouth (and i am sure most other town and cities have the same) certain members of society who have never worked, they have kids screaming all over the place and there is a chance these kids will be the benefits claimants of tomorrow......

Now if todays claimant is breeding at a twofold rate and the next generation breed at the same rate, and the workforce diminishes where does that leave those who are working......

Supporting a system that will very quickly collapse

Rant over, i'll get me coat

[Martin_1962]

Yep totally agree.  Also sterilising the junkies would be another great idea so they can't have kid after kid to get more benefits and to stop another generation of little psychos emerging.

It does make me wonder what Darwin would think about the future prognosis for our gene pool. Soon they will be the only people in society who can afford to procreate.  

Kevin

We have helped a little to improve it with 3

[Martin_1962]

I have been unemployed through no fault of my own since april 10th.
so far I have not claimed a penny from the state as a matter of principle,as i believe that large chunks of the welfare state should be dismantled.
I have investigated the benifits system and i believe that if i was to play on the disability i have ,i could have a new car (motobility)and could get by on the benifits which i could claim.
I consider myself to be able to work for a while yet and that is what i intend to do.
i have applied for many jobs and not had so much as a reply from most of them,but i had an interview last week for a job (35 per cent less money than i was earning) and i am pinning my hopes on getting the job.
if i dont have a job by this time next week i will have no option but to claim benifits,if i do it will be with a heavy heart and probably tears in my eyes.
In short i largely agree with The Boy on this subject .there are many people in this country who have a reasonably comfortable existence by playing the benefits system.The government are doing these people no favours as they are removing the concepts of aspiration and ambition from them in their early years,and it of course causes resentment from taxpayers who are working to keep these families as well as their own.It also denies funds to genuinely sick and disabled people which is disgraceful.
I will start having some faith in the tory party when Dave (blair lite)cameron explains how he will stop this and reverse the hundreds of tax increases imposed in the last decade.
Personally I will believe it when i see it.
 

I have claimed benefits in the past and would again - they are a safety net I have paid into

[Banjax]

Me and Mrs Bann work hard and pay taxes and I can see people getting wound a bit tight - just relax......honestly lazy spongers know who they are - but the end of the day - its very low level crime - negligible compared to Euro MPs trousering millions for spurious "expenses", MP's "employing" family members, pointless wars, Arms trade Guarantees (heres the deal - you're a dictator who buys UK arms knowing full well that if you dont pay the UK company, the government BY LAW and with YOUR TAXES then pays them!!! we are such mugs)

I havent even touched on the billionaire "non-residents" who pay NO TAX (OK what is it? £35k a year? where does Roman et al find that kinda cash?)


theres corruption everywhere - but dole cheats arent the target - although they make an easy scapegoat along with immigrants - its lazy, its blinkered, and the powers that be LAUGH when the Daily Mail and the Sun chose those targets - while the REAL bandits get off scott free!!!!

[TheBoy]

And that is precisely the trouble with the benefits system!  Scrap it!  Make people go to work, if they don't, no money, no food, die.  The government are too bloody gay over the whole issue.  There are very few people in this country who are unable to work in one form or another.

i don't agree with scrapping it........

You're too liberal soft

[LaserLance]

this subject has stirred up a right hornets nest!!!!

[rickyboy]

It's been finally changed then.  Point being though - people who are capable of work and have no interest in working learn rather quickly how to sponge the system and you can make a healthy living from it.  I've heard plenty of them boasting about it.

Also plenty of them claiming credit on neighbours post codes etc.

Ah, so we have moved away from "brand new cars"

But how many is "plenty" ; 100% of 6 or 3% of 100 unemployed?  Or just the odd minority who are the criminally minded amoungst us anyway? :-? :-?

At any level of our society, top to bottom, there are people who "use" the system for their own ends to unfairly obtain advantage from the rest of us.     However it is dangerous to tar all unemployed with the same brush and condemn them, or anyone else for that matter, with bland general statements without hard facts to back it all up!

That is what the Nazis did against the Jews, the disabled, the sick, the trade unionists etc!!

Me getting heavy?  Well yes, but this is what prejudice does in society at the extreme, and reading through this "rant" it shows how easily prejudice can be stoked without true facts to back it all up; just "feelings" leading to "hate"!

I'm certainly not trying to tar every person that's unemployed with the same brush.  I've been unemployed for a very short time in my life (couple of months) and it was the most miserable time I've ever experienced.  

It depends on your circumstances if you will make a comfortable living from benefits.  For example my ex-girlfriends best friend was a single mother with two kids from different fathers.  She had a £20,000 loan which is now deferred and got a brand new 3 bedroom council house (and it didn't look like a council house) in a very nice area and made the same money as my ex and my wage put together at the end of the month.  She has bettered herself and now has a degree and is working but who's to say that there are others in the same position who feel they have no responsibility to play a part in making a fair and honest society who looks after others genuinely less fortunate.

Still remains a fact that I know 3 folk who have had brand new cars whilst unemployed long term - not a top of the range merc but a couple of fiat puntos and one with a vectra (bought in 2003).  I don't know what percent of unemployed people have brand new cars it would be ridiculous to think that I would and be able to get that information.

To be fair the one with the vectra was claiming disability for his diabetes.  He also added that he was perfectly capable of working and his previous job had been a very well paid IT job.  He gave up his job after working his whole life solidly for 30 odd years on the principle that he's contributed a lot of money to society through tax and is fed up having to work for others.  If you have high tax on your wage, you'll know that an obscene amount of money is given to the goverment from your wage every year.

We also have a stigma against low paid jobs in this country which is why you have people refusing to work in places like McDonalds.  It's widely regarded that the working class did not feel a sense of shame 50 odd years ago and were happy to have a job.  Our modern society is obsessed with having the right brand of clothes, the right car, the best watch etc, etc.  I've often wondered how someone on welfare can afford designer clothes, sky tv etc when I can't.

Most recent sponging scam which is a favourite among some of my workmates is to go to the doctor and say you're depressed they'll give you a sick line for as long as you want.  They are reluctant to refuse you one incase you genuinely are depressed and later top yourself.  Our company sick pay has now been changed from 3 months full pay to 10 days because of this.  I've taken one sick day off work in the last years and dread to think what would happen if I needed to be off sick long term

[Vamps]

  Believe me, it is for the best.

[Jay w]

And that is precisely the trouble with the benefits system!  Scrap it!  Make people go to work, if they don't, no money, no food, die.  The government are too bloody gay over the whole issue.  There are very few people in this country who are unable to work in one form or another.

i don't agree with scrapping it........

You're too liberal soft

if you heed someone to talk to we have a wide range of P.C. therapists who will be happy to listen to your issues

[LJay]

Believe me, it is for the best.

  me too!

[stuart30]

I feel for anyone who has a certain standard of living which is always determined by their income, and suddenly finds that this standard is being eroded through no fault of their own. Council workers, no matter how badly they think they are being treated, at least have some protection and the option to strike. Most people do not. Throughout the last 10 years we have all seen prices rise, but not wages. Spare a thought for the massive army of self-employed workers, and those, like me, who receive a small basic wage and rely on sales commission for the rest. My basic is £10k a year, the rest being made up of commission from cars sold. We used to sell 12/15 cars a week which more  than doubled my wage, nowadays we are selling 6 or 7 a week, my wages have plummeted, I can't strike,  I have no protection or guarantees,
no unions, no public sympathy. All of us will know building workers and HGV drivers who have been laid off, they are in a similar position. So please forgive me if I have few thoughts for council workers. None of those council workers  who received large payments for the difference in wages between male and female workers were complaining then, being able to retire early is also not an option for people like me. I am not trying to sound bitter or pompous but welcome to the real world economy, market forces will now determine civic pay. Despite council tax doubling in the last 10 years can any OOF member honestly say they receive a better service for the extra money?

Well in a nutshell if you find your final salary reduced and its not enough too get by on then why not simply find another job.

I do a job i honestly dont like....security is just about the most dead end proffesion you can find,i do it as it pays me enough too live on.

I work hard (no i dont but thats besides the point) and put extremely long hours in...avergae works out roughly £27,000 PA.

So really no one has any excuse about banging on about how hard done by they are...theres plenty of jobs out there.

[SheWhoMustNotBeOUTBID]

I have been on benefits.., and rather than having the money to buy alcohol/lottery tickets.., have lived on toast for weeks on end to feed my kids - and knowing i was feeding them badly at that.  I used a social fund loan to buy a part ex car from the local garage when I still lived with my also non working ex.., who drove, cause i have a son with special needs who has a habit of sitting on the pavement rather than walking anywhere. One of the reasons I was given taxi rides to the local child and family health place.  Its 40 mins away and half the time we didn't get there before they gave us access to taxi's for the appts (by then my ex and I had split up, I don't drive and can't afford to pay for a provisional - been trying for months to save the money up but something always comes up like bills and food and clothes for two kids).

I went on benefits after weeks of looking for work, paying a childminder I could not afford to lose cause I wouldn't be able to replace her because i was so determined to find work.  BUT once u get sucked into the benefits system (and believe it or not.., there IS no credit - except the social fund loan system which I paid back -  not even an overdraft if u are on benefits) and have to look at not getting paid for a month on a salaried job - while paying childcare costs and rent for two weeks etc.., knowing u are going to be earning £5 per hour while 'things' sort themselves out (in terms of getting tax credits etc) and it means u can't put even basic food on the table because u are working - u tend to think twice about going to work.

I'm sorry folks, but its not the easy life on benefits u think.  

And I guarantee - totally guarantee cause its happened, i would have lost any job I had cause of the fact I need to look after a two year old and a twelve year old with special needs - his special needs are not really bad but I never seem to get off the phone with his school and social workers and health professionals he see's trying to improve his quality of life and make him in the future self sufficient. I hate being called a scrounger.., but in a way I have been.  I'd love to not be.  U don't know how much.

[Kevin Wood]

I'm sorry folks, but its not the easy life on benefits u think.

I personally didn't mean to suggest it was, nor that there aren't people who deserve them and, in some cases, will rely on them long term.

My gripe is that as you say people get sucked in. The system gives you no thanks for taking the first steps to get back to work and it is this that is wrong. There should be awards every step of the way. If the system paid for childcare, transport, and everything else that facilitates the first steps back to work so that working gave people money in their pockets straight away I'm sure many people wouldn't be as reluctant to bother.

Kevin

[stuart30]

I have been on benefits.., and rather than having the money to buy alcohol/lottery tickets.., have lived on toast for weeks on end to feed my kids - and knowing i was feeding them badly at that.  I used a social fund loan to buy a part ex car from the local garage when I still lived with my also non working ex.., who drove, cause i have a son with special needs who has a habit of sitting on the pavement rather than walking anywhere. One of the reasons I was given taxi rides to the local child and family health place.  Its 40 mins away and half the time we didn't get there before they gave us access to taxi's for the appts (by then my ex and I had split up, I don't drive and can't afford to pay for a provisional - been trying for months to save the money up but something always comes up like bills and food and clothes for two kids).

I went on benefits after weeks of looking for work, paying a childminder I could not afford to lose cause I wouldn't be able to replace her because i was so determined to find work.  BUT once u get sucked into the benefits system (and believe it or not.., there IS no credit - except the social fund loan system which I paid back -  not even an overdraft if u are on benefits) and have to look at not getting paid for a month on a salaried job - while paying childcare costs and rent for two weeks etc.., knowing u are going to be earning £5 per hour while 'things' sort themselves out (in terms of getting tax credits etc) and it means u can't put even basic food on the table because u are working - u tend to think twice about going to work.

I'm sorry folks, but its not the easy life on benefits u think.  

Im sorry too say for every genuine case im sure theres dozens that are not...sounds like you had a tuff time.

I personally know of 3 girls (slob pint drinking heffers) that left school and have never worked (im 34) due too WANTING a kid (partner not wanted) because they would be housed and paid too sit at home doing sweet fanny adams.

Openly admit they will never work...and when the social try and force them suddenly down doctors with stress and depression.

Low life scum should have kids taken off them and thrown out in the street.