Brexit.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Don't forget that the wrong decision was made in the '70s...

England has done very well out of it. The UK provinces even better.

Not sure if that makes it a mistake  .  In the decade follow us in the Common Market, we had the advantage of that and of a strong leader in Maggie, turning this country from a bankrupt, unproductive land into a finacially secure place with opportunities.


But the trash media public have decided, and we must leave (I dont believe in a 2nd ref), and that will be a half cocked, half arsed, abortion of a compromise.  Remember, all the influence within the country doesn't want to leave, they want access to Europe.

This is true TB, but the Common Market that people voted to stay in back in 1975 has changed drastically with the treaties from Maastrict to Lisbon, changing it from a loose trading association into a single legal entity with all the trappings of a sovereign country and this is what people don't like. 

The effects of the policies that have come with it, particularly mass immigration from Eastern Europe have negatively impacted peoples lives.  A good example of this is a bunch of trades guys I know in South Wales who used to go down to London to work on the construction sites.  They earned very good money, but it's all gone now as the work is being done by immigrants (mostly Romanians apparently) for less than half of what the Welsh guys were getting paid.  Are they trash? Does their opinion count for any less than a middle class corporate white collar type? 

When you say that the 'influence' in the country dosn't want to leave, you really mean the establishment ie government, the civil service and big business who have vested interests in keeping us shackled to the EU.  They thought that public opinion would swing into line if they held a referendum and promised immediate armageddon if the people dared to defy them and vote to leave the EU.     They were wrong!   

However, the establishment is fighting a hard rearguard action and there are dark forces at work in this country to keep us within the sphere of the EU and they will do this at any cost.  Even if it means reducing this country to an effective colony of the EU where we have to accept all the laws, rules and regulations (including free movement), pay vast sums of money into the EU budget and remain under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.  Yet we will have no MEP's, no EU Commissioner, no Judges sitting at the ECJ, and the PM will not attend meetings of the European Council.   

It will be governance without representation and there will be nobody within the corridors of the EU fighting for Britain's national interest.    How anyone can even contemplate such an outcome is utterly beyond me and I have nothing but contempt for them! 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The way things are moving it looks as though we will leave the EU but remain within the sphere of the EU.

The 'leave the EU' people voted for and the wishy-washy 'leave the EU' we are likely to have are poles apart.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I would like to see transcripts of meetings that Michel Barnier has with people like Umunna, Soubry, Adonis, Clarke and Sturgeon when they trot across to Brussels to see him. 

[Varche]

Don't forget that the wrong decision was made in the '70s...

England has done very well out of it. The UK provinces even better.

Not sure if that makes it a mistake  .  In the decade follow us in the Common Market, we had the advantage of that and of a strong leader in Maggie, turning this country from a bankrupt, unproductive land into a finacially secure place with opportunities.


But the trash media public have decided, and we must leave (I dont believe in a 2nd ref), and that will be a half cocked, half arsed, abortion of a compromise.  Remember, all the influence within the country doesn't want to leave, they want access to Europe.

This is true TB, but the Common Market that people voted to stay in back in 1975 has changed drastically with the treaties from Maastrict to Lisbon, changing it from a loose trading association into a single legal entity with all the trappings of a sovereign country and this is what people don't like. 

The effects of the policies that have come with it, particularly mass immigration from Eastern Europe have negatively impacted peoples lives.  A good example of this is a bunch of trades guys I know in South Wales who used to go down to London to work on the construction sites.  They earned very good money, but it's all gone now as the work is being done by immigrants (mostly Romanians apparently) for less than half of what the Welsh guys were getting paid.  Are they trash? Does their opinion count for any less than a middle class corporate white collar type? 

When you say that the 'influence' in the country dosn't want to leave, you really mean the establishment ie government, the civil service and big business who have vested interests in keeping us shackled to the EU.  They thought that public opinion would swing into line if they held a referendum and promised immediate armageddon if the people dared to defy them and vote to leave the EU.     They were wrong!   

However, the establishment is fighting a hard rearguard action and there are dark forces at work in this country to keep us within the sphere of the EU and they will do this at any cost.  Even if it means reducing this country to an effective colony of the EU where we have to accept all the laws, rules and regulations (including free movement), pay vast sums of money into the EU budget and remain under the jurisdiction of the ECJ.  Yet we will have no MEP's, no EU Commissioner, no Judges sitting at the ECJ, and the PM will not attend meetings of the European Council.   

It will be governance without representation and there will be nobody within the corridors of the EU fighting for Britain's national interest.    How anyone can even contemplate such an outcome is utterly beyond me and I have nothing but contempt for them! 

Well said that man.


Did anyone see the NINE leaders of the G7 posing for photos today.  One from each of the G7 plus Tusk and Junker to make sure that EU interests were upheld.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I voted to remain but I don't want to see us 'leave' like a frightened child. Wanting it's independence but scared of truly letting go.

I think we have compromised too much already and have negotiated SFA in return. The EU is giving us a kicking as things stand.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

David Davis is a jovial old chap but seems out of his depth to me.

........perhaps the skinny inbred 'aristo' Jacob Rees Mogg would be an improvement (or not)

[Rods2]

That's what happens when a total consistent failure and office bimbo gets promoted beyond the typing pool with delusions of becoming a politician. Somebody, whose most difficult daily decision to pontificate over for half an hour or so is whether while on the toilet having a wee, making the very difficult decision on whether to have a dump as well or not? She probably hates the fact that us men decide whether to go for one or both before we hit the bathroom.

Office junior may has no leadership skills whatsoever. She has no vision, planning, team building for aiming at common goals as there are no goals, no understanding so determination cannot go beyond being bloody awkward and no decision making skills. All you get is a daily fuddle and fudge based on her fad of the day that has grabbed her attention. Her daily task muddle compass is like a weathervane on the edge of a tornado. What will be her tomorrow #Brexit vision, check the weathervane.

She has to go. It needs a stalking horse and about 40 MP's to grow a pair and write letters to the 1922 committee calling for a leadership challenge.

The total drifting, fudge, failure have characterised all of her ministerial appointments. People like her & Diane Abbot are the result of not getting there by merit but through women's lists. Talented women are largely much too sensible to go into poorly paid politics when they can earn far more in the private and public sector.

[Doctor Gollum]

In the words of JC Penny,

"Give me a stock clerk with a goal, and I will give you a man who will make history. Give me a man without a goal, and I will give you a stock clerk."

I think we have identified the crux of the problem...

[TheBoy]

That's what happens when a total consistent failure and office bimbo gets promoted beyond the typing pool with delusions of becoming a politician. Somebody, whose most difficult daily decision to pontificate over for half an hour or so is whether while on the toilet having a wee, making the very difficult decision on whether to have a dump as well or not? She probably hates the fact that us men decide whether to go for one or both before we hit the bathroom.

Office junior may has no leadership skills whatsoever. She has no vision, planning, team building for aiming at common goals as there are no goals, no understanding so determination cannot go beyond being bloody awkward and no decision making skills. All you get is a daily fuddle and fudge based on her fad of the day that has grabbed her attention. Her daily task muddle compass is like a weathervane on the edge of a tornado. What will be her tomorrow #Brexit vision, check the weathervane.

She has to go. It needs a stalking horse and about 40 MP's to grow a pair and write letters to the 1922 committee calling for a leadership challenge.

The total drifting, fudge, failure have characterised all of her ministerial appointments. People like her & Diane Abbot are the result of not getting there by merit but through women's lists. Talented women are largely much too sensible to go into poorly paid politics when they can earn far more in the private and public sector.

To be blunt, the same applies to any UK (including provinces) politicians and civil servants for the past 30 years or more.

Even "a Maggie" would get nowhere nowadays.



DG and the rest of the true EU exit gang truly want a hard Brexit, you need to vote in a dictator, as you'll just get a washed down, wet, gormless compromise using democracy to attempt it.  If you want a true hard Brexit and preferential trade tariffs for this insignificant, wet, gormless island, you need to invade and rule Europe.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Brexit was supposed to be so simple.

We dictate  our demands to our 27 European friends and they all agree.


We have our cake and eat it. No compromise required on our part.....and no adverse consequences.


What went wrong?

[Sir Tigger KC]

DG and the rest of the true EU exit gang truly want a hard Brexit, you need to vote in a dictator, as you'll just get a washed down, wet, gormless compromise using democracy to attempt it.  If you want a true hard Brexit and preferential trade tariffs for the worlds 5th largest economy and permanent member of the UN Security Council, you need to invade and rule Europe.

Good point TB! 

[Rods2]

That's what happens when a total consistent failure and office bimbo gets promoted beyond the typing pool with delusions of becoming a politician. Somebody, whose most difficult daily decision to pontificate over for half an hour or so is whether while on the toilet having a wee, making the very difficult decision on whether to have a dump as well or not? She probably hates the fact that us men decide whether to go for one or both before we hit the bathroom.

Office junior may has no leadership skills whatsoever. She has no vision, planning, team building for aiming at common goals as there are no goals, no understanding so determination cannot go beyond being bloody awkward and no decision making skills. All you get is a daily fuddle and fudge based on her fad of the day that has grabbed her attention. Her daily task muddle compass is like a weathervane on the edge of a tornado. What will be her tomorrow #Brexit vision, check the weathervane.

She has to go. It needs a stalking horse and about 40 MP's to grow a pair and write letters to the 1922 committee calling for a leadership challenge.

The total drifting, fudge, failure have characterised all of her ministerial appointments. People like her & Diane Abbot are the result of not getting there by merit but through women's lists. Talented women are largely much too sensible to go into poorly paid politics when they can earn far more in the private and public sector.

To be blunt, the same applies to any UK (including provinces) politicians and civil servants for the past 30 years or more.

Even "a Maggie" would get nowhere nowadays.



DG and the rest of the true EU exit gang truly want a hard Brexit, you need to vote in a dictator, as you'll just get a washed down, wet, gormless compromise using democracy to attempt it.  If you want a true hard Brexit and preferential trade tariffs for this insignificant, wet, gormless island, you need to invade and rule Europe.

ROW outside of the EU have no problems with trading with the EU it is only our politicians that are making it difficult. I've exported to Europe pre & post-single market and it made very little difference. There were always much more important things to worry about like making sure we were paid, conforming to each countries' laws as single market rules only totally apply to some large categories of goods like food and cars, correct localization of all text, joint advertising and marketing etc, etc.

[Varche]

That's what happens when a total consistent failure and office bimbo gets promoted beyond the typing pool with delusions of becoming a politician. Somebody, whose most difficult daily decision to pontificate over for half an hour or so is whether while on the toilet having a wee, making the very difficult decision on whether to have a dump as well or not? She probably hates the fact that us men decide whether to go for one or both before we hit the bathroom.

Office junior may has no leadership skills whatsoever. She has no vision, planning, team building for aiming at common goals as there are no goals, no understanding so determination cannot go beyond being bloody awkward and no decision making skills. All you get is a daily fuddle and fudge based on her fad of the day that has grabbed her attention. Her daily task muddle compass is like a weathervane on the edge of a tornado. What will be her tomorrow #Brexit vision, check the weathervane.

She has to go. It needs a stalking horse and about 40 MP's to grow a pair and write letters to the 1922 committee calling for a leadership challenge.

The total drifting, fudge, failure have characterised all of her ministerial appointments. People like her & Diane Abbot are the result of not getting there by merit but through women's lists. Talented women are largely much too sensible to go into poorly paid politics when they can earn far more in the private and public sector.

To be blunt, the same applies to any UK (including provinces) politicians and civil servants for the past 30 years or more.

Even "a Maggie" would get nowhere nowadays.



DG and the rest of the true EU exit gang truly want a hard Brexit, you need to vote in a dictator, as you'll just get a washed down, wet, gormless compromise using democracy to attempt it.  If you want a true hard Brexit and preferential trade tariffs for this insignificant, wet, gormless island, you need to invade and rule Europe.

Funny though that the EU steam roller achieves its goals regardless. This despite being supposedly democratic. The dictators are the establishment behind the scenes with their very own real goals. I don't agree at all with your last sentence.  We managed alright between us in Europe when it was a common market. Putting the four freedoms as "strings" is where it went wrong. That and aiming for all EU member states to adopt the Deutschmark Euro. Shame as some of the ideas are very laudable.

It is interesting that two years on there is still very little EU reform though Merkel came out the other day saying that there ought to be some reforms but first the pesky East European countries need to toe the line and take migrants off Italy's hands. Spain has got a sweetener in the form of a 5% increase in funds - no doubt to keep the populists at bay when the Sanchez government (very pro EU) falls in a few months.

[Rods2]

Poor failing countries in the Euro suit Germany perfectly as it keeps their exports competitively priced. Germany will never agree and do any meaningful reforms to keep the Euro down, but also because the reunification of Germany was deeply resented & costly by the Western part where the 1 to 1 exchange rate for Deutschmarks to East German confetti was wrong. Any German politician that commits to making the Euro work by pooling sovereign bonds and making transfers (which is what you have to do in the absence of relative adjustable exchange rates) to ease Euro stress between rich & poor areas would be committing political suicide. It would make Merkel's politically costly immigrant blunder look like a hiccup.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Poor failing countries in the Euro suit Germany perfectly as it keeps their exports competitively priced. Germany will never agree and do any meaningful reforms to keep the Euro down, but also because the reunification of Germany was deeply resented & costly by the Western part where the 1 to 1 exchange rate for Deutschmarks to East German confetti was wrong. Any German politician that commits to making the Euro work by pooling sovereign bonds and making transfers (which is what you have to do in the absence of relative adjustable exchange rates) to ease Euro stress between rich & poor areas would be committing political suicide. It would make Merkel's politically costly immigrant blunder look like a hiccup.

Fortunes were made in East Germany when the wall came down and they converted East German marks to Bundes Marks at the 1:1 exchange rate.  A lot of East Germans blew it on Western goods like Fords, VWs, wide screen TV's etc and a lot of West Germans went east to feed the demand. 

A fews years on many East Germans found themselves as poor as before, but with a rusting Ford outside their crumbling soviet block of flats and the West Germans had gone home with fat wallets!