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[Lizzie Zoom]

LZ - the lack of take up for electric cars still remains the range issue. And the 16hr charge time (fast charging mullers the batteries, whatever the manufacturer claims). And the fact if you discharge by over 50% reasonably regularly you muller the battery (whatever the manufacturer claims).

But all modern tizzy cars are in the category of proper quick off the line.

Thanks TB, but the issue of the equivalent of mpg and use of the accelerator / the speed you do in electric cars is just one of the questions  I cannot answer in my mind

A current Tesla with the smallest battery available to have Lunatic Mode available (can't remember if thats 90 or 100kWh) is claimed 250+ miles to a charge, reality is half that in winter, even driven not too quickly. So, to avoid shagging the batts, around 60 miles range in winter, with a 16hr charge to avoid shagging the batteries.

Hence not for me, as although the 60m range would just about see me through, I leave before 7am, and get back around 6pm normally.  Thus is would only get a 12.5 hr charge.  And thats before you consider I wouldn't ever get near that level of range from it, in the same way I can't get the the 45mpg from the Pussy (nearer 30mg), or any other car I've ever owned.


Think of it like a proper big forced induction car, mpg wise.  What you read in the specs is what tunny may achieve on a good day.  Anyone who enjoys driving (properly) needs to budget around half to 2/3rds of that as a best case scenario.  Obviously in the case of electric, using heaters/chillers has a major impact.

Thanks TB. I think I understand that

In short it seems my choice to keep the 3.2 going is the right one

[Viral_Jim]

A current Tesla with the smallest battery available to have Lunatic Mode available (can't remember if thats 90 or 100kWh) is claimed 250+ miles to a charge, reality is half that in winter, even driven not too quickly. So, to avoid shagging the batts, around 60 miles range in winter, with a 16hr charge to avoid shagging the batteries.

Hence not for me, as although the 60m range would just about see me through, I leave before 7am, and get back around 6pm normally.  Thus is would only get a 12.5 hr charge.  And thats before you consider I wouldn't ever get near that level of range from it, in the same way I can't get the the 45mpg from the Pussy (nearer 30mg), or any other car I've ever owned.


Think of it like a proper big forced induction car, mpg wise.  What you read in the specs is what tunny may achieve on a good day.  Anyone who enjoys driving (properly) needs to budget around half to 2/3rds of that as a best case scenario.  Obviously in the case of electric, using heaters/chillers has a major impact.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out for me in the milk float, I'm on course to do just over my 75k lease in the 3 years I have it. So far, driving normally (at or about the speed limit, heated seats and cabin heaters set normally) I'm getting about 95% of the WLTP range. Doubtless this will drop over the winter.

Charging wise, around 60% goes in using the 7kw wall boxes (circa 4hrs to charge) and the remainder is on rapid chargers - 20-30min charges to top the car up to about 80-90%.

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A current Tesla with the smallest battery available to have Lunatic Mode available (can't remember if thats 90 or 100kWh) is claimed 250+ miles to a charge, reality is half that in winter, even driven not too quickly. So, to avoid shagging the batts, around 60 miles range in winter, with a 16hr charge to avoid shagging the batteries.

Hence not for me, as although the 60m range would just about see me through, I leave before 7am, and get back around 6pm normally.  Thus is would only get a 12.5 hr charge.  And thats before you consider I wouldn't ever get near that level of range from it, in the same way I can't get the the 45mpg from the Pussy (nearer 30mg), or any other car I've ever owned.


Think of it like a proper big forced induction car, mpg wise.  What you read in the specs is what tunny may achieve on a good day.  Anyone who enjoys driving (properly) needs to budget around half to 2/3rds of that as a best case scenario.  Obviously in the case of electric, using heaters/chillers has a major impact.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out for me in the milk float, I'm on course to do just over my 75k lease in the 3 years I have it. So far, driving normally (at or about the speed limit, heated seats and cabin heaters set normally) I'm getting about 95% of the WLTP range. Doubtless this will drop over the winter.

Charging wise, around 60% goes in using the 7kw wall boxes (circa 4hrs to charge) and the remainder is on rapid chargers - 20-30min charges to top the car up to about 80-90%.

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

Presumably as more 'leccy' cars hit the streets you'll have to queue to use these.

Plenty of punch-ups.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A current Tesla with the smallest battery available to have Lunatic Mode available (can't remember if thats 90 or 100kWh) is claimed 250+ miles to a charge, reality is half that in winter, even driven not too quickly. So, to avoid shagging the batts, around 60 miles range in winter, with a 16hr charge to avoid shagging the batteries.

Hence not for me, as although the 60m range would just about see me through, I leave before 7am, and get back around 6pm normally.  Thus is would only get a 12.5 hr charge.  And thats before you consider I wouldn't ever get near that level of range from it, in the same way I can't get the the 45mpg from the Pussy (nearer 30mg), or any other car I've ever owned.


Think of it like a proper big forced induction car, mpg wise.  What you read in the specs is what tunny may achieve on a good day.  Anyone who enjoys driving (properly) needs to budget around half to 2/3rds of that as a best case scenario.  Obviously in the case of electric, using heaters/chillers has a major impact.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out for me in the milk float, I'm on course to do just over my 75k lease in the 3 years I have it. So far, driving normally (at or about the speed limit, heated seats and cabin heaters set normally) I'm getting about 95% of the WLTP range. Doubtless this will drop over the winter.

Charging wise, around 60% goes in using the 7kw wall boxes (circa 4hrs to charge) and the remainder is on rapid chargers - 20-30min charges to top the car up to about 80-90%.

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

Jimmy....is the battery a single item or does it consist of a number of 'modules' which can be replaced individually. An Infiniti I looked at had six modules to the battery, each costing around £3500, before fitting.

[Kevin Wood]

A current Tesla with the smallest battery available to have Lunatic Mode available (can't remember if thats 90 or 100kWh) is claimed 250+ miles to a charge, reality is half that in winter, even driven not too quickly. So, to avoid shagging the batts, around 60 miles range in winter, with a 16hr charge to avoid shagging the batteries.

Hence not for me, as although the 60m range would just about see me through, I leave before 7am, and get back around 6pm normally.  Thus is would only get a 12.5 hr charge.  And thats before you consider I wouldn't ever get near that level of range from it, in the same way I can't get the the 45mpg from the Pussy (nearer 30mg), or any other car I've ever owned.


Think of it like a proper big forced induction car, mpg wise.  What you read in the specs is what tunny may achieve on a good day.  Anyone who enjoys driving (properly) needs to budget around half to 2/3rds of that as a best case scenario.  Obviously in the case of electric, using heaters/chillers has a major impact.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out for me in the milk float, I'm on course to do just over my 75k lease in the 3 years I have it. So far, driving normally (at or about the speed limit, heated seats and cabin heaters set normally) I'm getting about 95% of the WLTP range. Doubtless this will drop over the winter.

Charging wise, around 60% goes in using the 7kw wall boxes (circa 4hrs to charge) and the remainder is on rapid chargers - 20-30min charges to top the car up to about 80-90%.

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

Presumably as more 'leccy' cars hit the streets you'll have to queue to use these.

Plenty of punch-ups.

Yep. Can't wait until "charger rage" becomes a thing.

[Nick W]

Charger rage will get worse when they're installed outside small supermarkets with names like Elecco, Elexaco, Shellec etc etc

[dave the builder]

Charger rage will get worse when they're installed outside small supermarkets with names like Elecco, Elexaco, Shellec etc etc

You forgot Brexitco Nick ,for people who want proper British electric, none of that foreign EU rubbish   

[Viral_Jim]

Jimmy....is the battery a single item or does it consist of a number of 'modules' which can be replaced individually. An Infiniti I looked at had six modules to the battery, each costing around £3500, before fitting.

Yes, they're modular, 27 Panasonic ones I think, suggests about 1.2kwh each in capacity. I know the Lexus ones are mega money (much like all lexus spares). Given that there's a company sprung up that will fit you a full 40kwh battery pack for about £8k, it would suggest each module is maybe £150 a throw (assuming the company wants £2k to fit the pack).

Ultimately it all comes down to how long they last. And, while views on this forum are that the batteries will be junk in <100k, the Tesla forum data seems to indicate that the model s loses 5% by 50k miles. Another 5% upto 150k and then the degredation slows down.

On that basis I'm expecting to have about 90% of the WLTP range left on mine by the time I give it back.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Jimmy....is the battery a single item or does it consist of a number of 'modules' which can be replaced individually. An Infiniti I looked at had six modules to the battery, each costing around £3500, before fitting.

Yes, they're modular, 27 Panasonic ones I think, suggests about 1.2kwh each in capacity. I know the Lexus ones are mega money (much like all lexus spares). Given that there's a company sprung up that will fit you a full 40kwh battery pack for about £8k, it would suggest each module is maybe £150 a throw (assuming the company wants £2k to fit the pack).

Ultimately it all comes down to how long they last. And, while views on this forum are that the batteries will be junk in <100k, the Tesla forum data seems to indicate that the model s loses 5% by 50k miles. Another 5% upto 150k and then the degredation slows down.

On that basis I'm expecting to have about 90% of the WLTP range left on mine by the time I give it back.

Perhaps the price of a new battery will go the way of pocket calculators

I think £30 for a Sinclair Cambridge around 1972.........down to mere buttons now.

Or possibly the elements needed will become harder and more expensive to source as they are depleted.

Who knows?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A current Tesla with the smallest battery available to have Lunatic Mode available (can't remember if thats 90 or 100kWh) is claimed 250+ miles to a charge, reality is half that in winter, even driven not too quickly. So, to avoid shagging the batts, around 60 miles range in winter, with a 16hr charge to avoid shagging the batteries.

Hence not for me, as although the 60m range would just about see me through, I leave before 7am, and get back around 6pm normally.  Thus is would only get a 12.5 hr charge.  And thats before you consider I wouldn't ever get near that level of range from it, in the same way I can't get the the 45mpg from the Pussy (nearer 30mg), or any other car I've ever owned.


Think of it like a proper big forced induction car, mpg wise.  What you read in the specs is what tunny may achieve on a good day.  Anyone who enjoys driving (properly) needs to budget around half to 2/3rds of that as a best case scenario.  Obviously in the case of electric, using heaters/chillers has a major impact.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out for me in the milk float, I'm on course to do just over my 75k lease in the 3 years I have it. So far, driving normally (at or about the speed limit, heated seats and cabin heaters set normally) I'm getting about 95% of the WLTP range. Doubtless this will drop over the winter.

Charging wise, around 60% goes in using the 7kw wall boxes (circa 4hrs to charge) and the remainder is on rapid chargers - 20-30min charges to top the car up to about 80-90%.

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

Presumably as more 'leccy' cars hit the streets you'll have to queue to use these.

Plenty of punch-ups.

Yep. Can't wait until "charger rage" becomes a thing.

 My guess is the increase in electric cars will far outstrip the increase in charging facilities. Best carry a gun.

[dave the builder]

A current Tesla with the smallest battery available to have Lunatic Mode available (can't remember if thats 90 or 100kWh) is claimed 250+ miles to a charge, reality is half that in winter, even driven not too quickly. So, to avoid shagging the batts, around 60 miles range in winter, with a 16hr charge to avoid shagging the batteries.

Hence not for me, as although the 60m range would just about see me through, I leave before 7am, and get back around 6pm normally.  Thus is would only get a 12.5 hr charge.  And thats before you consider I wouldn't ever get near that level of range from it, in the same way I can't get the the 45mpg from the Pussy (nearer 30mg), or any other car I've ever owned.


Think of it like a proper big forced induction car, mpg wise.  What you read in the specs is what tunny may achieve on a good day.  Anyone who enjoys driving (properly) needs to budget around half to 2/3rds of that as a best case scenario.  Obviously in the case of electric, using heaters/chillers has a major impact.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out for me in the milk float, I'm on course to do just over my 75k lease in the 3 years I have it. So far, driving normally (at or about the speed limit, heated seats and cabin heaters set normally) I'm getting about 95% of the WLTP range. Doubtless this will drop over the winter.

Charging wise, around 60% goes in using the 7kw wall boxes (circa 4hrs to charge) and the remainder is on rapid chargers - 20-30min charges to top the car up to about 80-90%.

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

Presumably as more 'leccy' cars hit the streets you'll have to queue to use these.

Plenty of punch-ups.

Yep. Can't wait until "charger rage" becomes a thing.

 My guess is the increase in electric cars will far outstrip the increase in charging facilities. Best carry a gun.

why  queue up with the local peasants to charge your environmentally friendly EV when you can just buy a decent 20 KVA diesel generator to charge it up 

[Kevin Wood]

My guess is the increase in electric cars will far outstrip the increase in charging facilities. Best carry a gun.

It will have to due to the electrical supply capacity to the sites alone. The cars will be usable up to range/2 from home, if you're lucky enough to have a house where you can connect the car.

Then. when everyone in your street has one, the local substation will go kaboom.

[TheBoy]

I don't buy that TB, as JLR were part of FMC one of the biggest motor manufacturers and are now part of TATA a global industrial giant, but I agree that they are a victim of their own short termism.

Too slowly it seems.... 

Not sure about Jaguar (will ask), but Landrover were never part of FMC, but part of PAG, which encompassed Ford.

As we know from the news over the last few years, the Tata conglomorate doesn't cross subsidise or help other companies in the same group, hence British Steel was left to a management buyout.  And JLR were not getting any discounts if they used British Steel.


And JLR are selling tizzy cars, and currently faster than they can make them .  But diesel is still king.

[TheBoy]

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

Any battery manufacturer will quote what I said above.  And internally, every car manufacturer will also say the same.  But they don't publish externally for obvious reasons, and its against the BBC's principles to "investigate" that

[Sir Tigger KC]

I don't buy that TB, as JLR were part of FMC one of the biggest motor manufacturers and are now part of TATA a global industrial giant, but I agree that they are a victim of their own short termism.

Too slowly it seems.... 

Not sure about Jaguar (will ask), but Landrover were never part of FMC, but part of PAG, which encompassed Ford.

The Premier Automotive Group (PAG) was a Ford holding coming that ran it's premium brands, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo and Lincoln. 

sed Ford.Not sure about Ja

As we know from the news over the last few years, the Tata conglomorate doesn't cross subsidise or help other companies in the same group, hence British Steel was left to a management buyout.  And JLR were not getting any discounts if they used British Steel.

To the man on the street (ie Me!) this dosn't make good business sense.  Maybe it's against the rules... EU rules? 

And JLR are selling tizzy cars, and currently faster than they can make them .  But diesel is still king.

Glad to hear it and I see they do a hybrid Range Rover now, but I still maintain that they could and should have started doing this a decade ago.  Maybe it's a hangover from the Ford era, as I don't think they've been quick to get into hybrids or EV's either.