Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nick W]

I take it there’s no problem refurbing an aftermarket lower arm? Or should an original GM arm be used? I can’t see there being an issue with the metal but u might have noticed something I haven’t?

no problem whatsoever.


I did 3 full frontend rebuilds in about six months, and wouldn't say there's any practical difference between cheap ATP wishbones and the wornout GM ones I removed.


The bushes might be another matter, but I would always use polys on the front, and spend the extra few quid on genuine GM when the rears need replacing. One thing to consider is that they're a press fit in a sheetmetal housing, so I'd be wary about replacing them more than a couple of times. If the rear bushes and balljoints(which only tend to fail if the boot is somehow damaged) need replacing at the same time, then the cost/time ratio would make me fit new wishbones. New wishbones have riveted balljoints, which are more secure than bolted replacements. Yes, I have seen problems with bolted ones, although they weren't on an Omega

[Doctor Gollum]

Likewise, their kit costs a third of a single GM wishbone.

This is a mixed blessing as it makes them really good value for money, ideal for getting a car working cheaply, but clearly they won't last the 80-120k miles that the originals do. Not sure why this comes as a surprise... 

Even if you DIY and use the ATP kit, it costs around a grand to overall the suspension on the Omega, including set up. Which is why people cut corners and then wonder why nothing changes with regard to tyre wear etc.

I tended to use the ATP kit on all of my cars, but did poly bush them before fitting.

Refurbing the Omega suspension - though I argue that not all components need to be done, only those that have failed - what is the single most expensive bit?

The setup.

Hence, why would anyone want to do that annually?


Once the polys are bought, a GM wishbone refurb is about £14 per side (probably plus VAT, mind). Far cheaper than ATP's poor quality stuff.

So why fit a pretty poor, vastly inferior product that's a lot more expensive.  I am utter bemused 

Polys are initially £50, plus the GM bits, which not everyone can get at trade

Given most peoples' usage and the fact that most of the people who suffer this, they have often bought a car with worn out components, and only find out about the finer points of Omega wishbones when they have a pair of Delphi/Firstline wishbones thrown on by someone who doesn't know/care how they fit them.

Granted the ATP stuff doesn't last anything like the factory stuff, not that so called OE parts do either , but where else can you get both wishbones/track rods/drop links (incidentally most of the parts that affect front geometry) for less than a night out?

You are correct that the alignment is expensive, so if you're on a budget, you're surely better off replacing as many of the wear parts as possible before getting it set up...

We will have to agree to disagree

[TheBoy]

I do have to disagree, as its not just false economy, its simply more expensive from the outset - all crap wishbones, including ATP, need to be polyed to last the warranty period.

And fitting the other junk ATP supply in their kits is monumentally daft, as all you are doing is sinking further into basically scrapping your car in the next few months.

I gets under my skin when I see, even complete strangers, waste their money, particularly in many cases when its people who cant afford to.

That's why I am so passionate on this one.


But I accept you and I will never agree on this specific point, and I suspect can't actually accept the other one's reasoning on it.  So I (very reluctantly, as it erks to see members waste money) agree to vehemently disagree.  Obviously, that's before we remember that ATP are a bunch of lying arseholes, but that's a separate debate altogether

[Doctor Gollum]

That last sentence we do agree on

[polilara]

So, thanks for all comments

1. Car was good to drive before I started to repair it last December. Reason for repair was one leaking original front shock. When I was there I realized that original wishbones were badly corroded as we use salt here in winter for deicing and the rest you know, I renewed everything. It was good to drive in the beginning. After last Summer it started to behave in a strange way, when braking car moved left and steering wheel turned right.

2. Idler has play down when I hang on the central bar with my body and play up when I push it strongly up when I am standing on the floor. In frame side it is solid. Movement only in central bar side when strongly loaded. I believe that this is not the root cause for my problem.

3. I am stupid. I tried to find wishbone bushing play by arrangement shown in pic by turning wheel left and right against the steering lock. With this I cannot get the load to wishbone bushing which I strongly believe is the case now. Could you advice how to really test the play? Would like to start from left and take the wishbone away if needed. So you said Poly or GM to front and GM to back. Could you pass a link for both of them, it is just work which I can do inside. I remember I just have to take the bolt of lower ball joint away and then two bolts of wishbone and that's it. No need to remove anything else.

[Doctor Gollum]

1. Front bush failure due to incorrect fitting process.

2. Think what you like, that much movement WILL affect geometry.

3. Pry bar between wishbone and subframe so that pry bar is 90 degrees to the bolt... ie slot the pry bar UP behind the front bush. Rear bush shows clear visual wear/damage. Clearly visible with the wheel off

Tunnie has a set of poly bushes* for sale... about a third of the price of new ones. Ebay or Larkspeed for them otherwise. Nearly £100 if you do the anti roll bar ones at the same time. Rear bush is readily available. Get heavy duty if you get a choice, but Febi or Lemforder probably easier to get than genuine.

*Poly bushes for the front bush completely eliminates the need for having the car on the ground when you tighten the bolts... a massive plus for torqueing the bolts

[polilara]

Thanks DG for comments,

Front bushing tightened in floor thanks to good tips in Maintenance Section.
I agree that idler movement affects the geometry and have to be repaired or changed it is really clear but I am still afraid that my big case here is bushing.

I read from Maintenance section something about firm/harsh driving with polys, are they noisy, too.

What is the number for rear bushing heavy duty version if needed? I found 9156605, is that "normal"?
For front I found 90576775 is heavy duty available?

I do not want to assemble anymore parts not recommended here (to avoid the third round down there). I check the play of bushings soon and take them away. If I am too lazy to change bushing how about these https://www.autonvaraosat24.fi/lemforder/1265653

[Doctor Gollum]

I cannot recommend strongly enough that you fit front poly bushes.

Comments of noise and harsh ride a scaremongering by people with limited imagination and should be ignored.

Also, if you aren't prepared to change the idler, we cannot help you.

[TheBoy]

Front polys just make it like what a new GM poly is like. Any reports of firmness are simply because the old ones an owner removed were shagged.

Standard GM bushes for the rearward front wishbone ones, if using GM wishbones. 3rd party wishbones may take different sizes, and TBH I wouldn't bother refurbing anything other than GM or genuine Lemforder.


Polys at the rear of the car is less clear, as there are issues in doing that.  Mine is poly'd, but if I did it again, I would use rubber ones I think.

[polilara]

I am about to order those Lemförder wishbones, any good link where to order and also get real Lemförder wishbones? The ATP ones I will repair with GM Bushing or other. Finnish Opel page reported that some coloured BMW bushes are even better? I also found this lemförder 1160203 for my idler.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Front polys just make it like what a new GM poly is like. Any reports of firmness are simply because the old ones an owner removed were shagged.

Standard GM bushes for the rearward front wishbone ones, if using GM wishbones. 3rd party wishbones may take different sizes, and TBH I wouldn't bother refurbing anything other than GM or genuine Lemforder.


Polys at the rear of the car is less clear, as there are issues in doing that.  Mine is poly'd, but if I did it again, I would use rubber ones I think.

Having gone through the process of refurbing GM wishbones with polybushes etc. I completely agree with the above. No harshness or noisiness. It just drives like a new car would. Do this then have the geometry set properly and it will make the car a real pleasure to drive.

[polilara]

Perhaps this was my case. Cheap kit less than 8000 km behind. Now new Lemförders assembled, tomorrow brakes and front nuts tightened and 4-wheels alignment soon. Let's see...

[Doctor Gollum]

Yup, that'd do it

[Enceladus]

Have you replaced the steering idler? The one with loads of play.

[polilara]

Have you replaced the steering idler? The one with loads of play.

Not yet, should press new Lemforder Bushing to it (original GM-part still there).