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Author Topic: Changing head gasket - locking tools?  (Read 11809 times)

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woolley11

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #60 on: 17 October 2020, 20:26:43 »

Will do - thanks.

wondered if it was pretty close to metal meeting metal.

Just can’t see how it’s happened but I’m a pretty much a novice so must have done something wrong 🤷🏼‍♂️
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Nick W

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #61 on: 17 October 2020, 21:49:07 »

Will do - thanks.

wondered if it was pretty close to metal meeting metal.

Just can’t see how it’s happened but I’m a pretty much a novice so must have done something wrong 🤷🏼‍♂️


Having one of the eccentrics set wrong so that it stopped tightening the belt as you adjusted it is one possibility.


Not having the belt tight around the crank pulley and wedged in place is another. You have to remove the wedge ohce the belt is around all of the pulleys!


Hopefully you are turning the engine through a complete cycle between each step of the adjustment process. I like at least two 'confidence turns' before putting the timing tools away. I do similar on all complex processes, as it reduces the possibility of having to redo the job :y


You are holding the 30mm hex of each adjuster as you torque the Torx bolt? Having the correct spanner(or something similar in my case) makes this much easier than wrestling with a fullsize 30mm spanner
« Last Edit: 17 October 2020, 21:53:06 by Nick W »
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woolley11

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #62 on: 18 October 2020, 08:37:53 »

From the pictures I’ve taken and studied, the advanced movement is equivalent to 1 tooth of the belt - so whether it’s jumped or “settled down” on running 🤷🏼‍♂️

Possibly where I have gone wrong in hindsight, is tightening the tensioners hex bolts to a point and then using a 30mm socket to nip up the adjuster in desired position before tightening & torquing  the hex bolt.

I don’t have a 30mm spanner in my collection so improvised. Maybe before I do anything I’ll get one of those today.
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Nick W

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #63 on: 18 October 2020, 09:14:39 »

From the pictures I’ve taken and studied, the advanced movement is equivalent to 1 tooth of the belt - so whether it’s jumped or “settled down” on running 🤷🏼‍♂️

Possibly where I have gone wrong in hindsight, is tightening the tensioners hex bolts to a point and then using a 30mm socket to nip up the adjuster in desired position before tightening & torquing  the hex bolt.

I don’t have a 30mm spanner in my collection so improvised. Maybe before I do anything I’ll get one of those today.


If you don't hold the adjuster while tightening the bolt, it will move. Which is why you must turn the engine through before refitting the covers.


I bought my timing set used, and it's the cheaper Sealey one that doesn't have the spanner. The first time I used it was with a standard 30mm combination spanner, which is far too long and the ring barely fit the nut. Buying the spanner separately would have cost almost as much as I paid for the rest of the kit, so I improvised:





That's an old 30mm socket that had clearly been used with an impact wrench because the 1/2" drive hole was badly rounded. I bored that out so my Torx socket fit through it, and welded on a piece of steel strap bent to clear everything. The hole is to cable tie it to the handle of the locking toolset.
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woolley11

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #64 on: 18 October 2020, 09:45:24 »

Thanks Nick

The other thing I’ve noticed is watching the cam belt video is that whilst you ensure the idlers are pre-set at 12 & 3 o’clock. I’ve assumed that these are the final positions and turned the eccentric 30mm heads accordingly 🤔 - rather than letting them “move” adjust the timing.

Few school boys errors but it’s all part of learning & understanding 👍
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Nick W

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #65 on: 18 October 2020, 09:57:17 »

Thanks Nick

The other thing I’ve noticed is watching the cam belt video is that whilst you ensure the idlers are pre-set at 12 & 3 o’clock. I’ve assumed that these are the final positions and turned the eccentric 30mm heads accordingly 🤔 - rather than letting them “move” adjust the timing.



What matters is that all of the timing marks align, and the belt is tensioned correctly. The pre-sets are to place the eccentrics so that you get plenty of adjustment to achieve both of those requirements.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #66 on: 18 October 2020, 13:16:37 »

Why are you going to get a 30mm spanner today? On the 2nd of June you told us you'd purchased a timing tool kit complete with the required spanner. You use the spanner in the kit to hold the hex eccentric in position on the idler rollers whilst tightening the Torx head bolts with a suitable socket and ratchet.

One full kit purchased including gauge and spanner  :y
From the pictures I’ve taken and studied, the advanced movement is equivalent to 1 tooth of the belt - so whether it’s jumped or “settled down” on running 🤷🏼‍♂️

Possibly where I have gone wrong in hindsight, is tightening the tensioners hex bolts to a point and then using a 30mm socket to nip up the adjuster in desired position before tightening & torquing  the hex bolt.

I don’t have a 30mm spanner in my collection so improvised. Maybe before I do anything I’ll get one of those today.
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woolley11

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #67 on: 25 October 2020, 20:46:35 »

Well gentlemen - I think the engine has seized unfortunately.

Tried turning crank clockwise with belt still attached to get to TDC and went fine until it stopped dead. Thinking it was the compression stopping it, I used a length of scaffold pole on end of wrench to get a bit more leverage. Absolutely solid, although I certainly didn’t force it - it should have moved with slight pressure on the pole.  Even if I swung my full 14 stone on it, reckon it wouldn’t shift. I’m assuming the worst to be honest as can’t see what else could be issue. You can rotate back anti-clockwise a little but no clockwise beyond a certain point.

Easier to find a couple of built up s/h heads, but crank/conrods/pistons condition unknown 🤔
Perhaps full engine if I can find one.

I had nothing to loose as labour for stripping engine and replacing head gasket on labour alone would be £400 plus  VAT that I was quoted,  plus parts. Hindsight is  a wonderful thing.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #68 on: 26 October 2020, 15:24:01 »

You should have popped the belt off and put the crank in a safe position before turning the cams. Sounds like the rotation is obstructed now so no way of telling what/if any damage has been caused to the valves without taking the heads off again.  :-\
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #69 on: 26 October 2020, 17:41:35 »

Rotate crank back a bit anti clockwise. Release tension on the belt then line the cams up and put the locks in place. Put crank lock on and push crank forward to correct position. Refit belt, and tension  it. Put everything back together and see if it starts up and runs ok.
Alternatively, take the heads off and inspect everything to see if youve done damage.
Your call.  ;)
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woolley11

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #70 on: 26 October 2020, 17:47:34 »

I was trying to get it to TDC before removing belt but hey ho.

I’ll give some thought what to do with engine now. Can readily remove both heads to see what is issue, but depends if any bent conrods or damaged pistons. Not one to admit defeat and car defo worth saving. Shame is I scrapped a 97k miler about 4 years ago with engine still in 😞

Probably best to rebuild this engine rather than swop engine for something unknown. That’s a job for someone else😄 - I can strip it but  hand it over to someone who knows what they are doing. As I say I had nothing to loose.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #71 on: 26 October 2020, 18:01:46 »

Do your self a favour and hand it over intact... Whoever draws the short straw won't appreciate all the bits in a cardboard box...  ::)
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #72 on: 26 October 2020, 18:27:33 »

I was trying to get it to TDC before removing belt but hey ho.

I’ll give some thought what to do with engine now. Can readily remove both heads to see what is issue, but depends if any bent conrods or damaged pistons. Not one to admit defeat and car defo worth saving. Shame is I scrapped a 97k miler about 4 years ago with engine still in 😞




Just how fast were you turning it? By hand?  :o :o


You've probably bent some valves.


If you're going to have it repaired, then it needs to be diagnosed properly, and that means handing it over as it is. Don't do any more damage buggering about with it.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #73 on: 26 October 2020, 21:27:19 »

The possible damage imo, is a bent valve or two. Theres two ways to find out. See how it runs, or strip it down to have a look.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #74 on: 26 October 2020, 21:31:45 »

The possible damage imo, is a bent valve or two. Theres two ways to find out. See how it runs, or strip it down to have a look.
Three plus teeth out, you may as well just rebuild it as it sits rather than bending ALL the valves :D
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