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Author Topic: Changing head gasket - locking tools?  (Read 3538 times)

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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #75 on: 26 October 2020, 23:04:27 »

Engine hasnt even been turned over on the starter though. Just the force of trying to turn it by hand, albeit with a scaffold pole.
May well be no harm done.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #76 on: 27 October 2020, 01:05:43 »

Engine hasnt even been turned over on the starter though. Just the force of trying to turn it by hand, albeit with a scaffold pole.
May well be no harm done.

Iíve put things together again from my cylinder head gasket replacement and timing kit etc.

Thereís no tickover and will stall if not a small amount of revs applied.

Runs rough at moment, but as rain channel/scuttle been off thinking the coil pack had got a dousing now. There was water in rear plug tube on N/S so highly lightly. Just need to get some time to investigate and remove/check/replace it.

More interestingly, Iíve also noticed a plastic (not rubber hose)pipe which is 12mm external diameter and 7mm interior diameter that seems to come up from the bell housing but no location in engine bay. Iíve taped it up for now but should go somewhere 🤔

Holding water pressure which is good.

Iíve noticed a little oil leak that could be rocker cover weeping a little.
You were saying...
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #77 on: 27 October 2020, 06:38:59 »

Ah, I hadnt gone that far back.  :y
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woolley11

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #78 on: 29 October 2020, 22:03:08 »

Iíve seen a couple of rebuilt heads on eBay - cheaper option perhaps, unless piston/bottom end damage. As you say hand it over to knowledgeable mechanic and see if it can be rescued. Iíve had a go and failed (I think)  :(

Thereís only 1 tooth out on belt with what Iím looking at  - not enough to cause damage I wouldnít have thought. However without the heads off we wonít know. So got to decide what to do, as guess another £600 for MOT work (welding front inner wings, jacking point(s), needs 4 tyres, discs/pads, brake pipes etc.) - probably £1100 to get it roadworthy assuming £300+ to get engine sorted. All engine parts Iíve bought will go again other than 1 head gasket..

Iíve got another MV6 to drive and the poorly one isnít my daily driver - I can lay it up (again) and mothball it but would like to get it sorted as itís a nice motor 😊
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #79 on: 30 October 2020, 11:29:22 »

Might be worth dropping this chap a PM...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6661

He hasn't been on for a while, but is relatively local to you and knows his onions.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #80 on: 30 October 2020, 12:25:43 »

One tooth on the belt does not get you to the 10mm previously posted?
If the belt is truly out by only one tooth then the pistons shouldn't have hit the valves.
So a second pair of eyes is a good idea as DG suggested.

Thereís only 1 tooth out on belt with what Iím looking at  - not enough to cause damage I wouldnít have thought. However without the heads off we wonít know.

Got some time this afternoon to screw on the crank timing tool. Iíve rotated it clockwise to the water pump as one does and locked it in place.

Well the timing looks to be well advanced in that all 4 cam sprockets TDC Marks are equally to the right of the backplate cut outs by about 10mm.  :-\
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #81 on: 30 October 2020, 13:11:58 »

I would just retime it and see what happens. Nothing to lose really, as your going to take the heads off or replace the engine anyway.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #82 on: 30 October 2020, 13:16:41 »

Moot point if it won't turn ;)

Well gentlemen - I think the engine has seized unfortunately.

Tried turning crank clockwise with belt still attached to get to TDC and went fine until it stopped dead. Thinking it was the compression stopping it, I used a length of scaffold pole on end of wrench to get a bit more leverage. Absolutely solid, although I certainly didnít force it - it should have moved with slight pressure on the pole.  Even if I swung my full 14 stone on it, reckon it wouldnít shift. Iím assuming the worst to be honest as canít see what else could be issue. You can rotate back anti-clockwise a little but no clockwise beyond a certain point.

Easier to find a couple of built up s/h heads, but crank/conrods/pistons condition unknown 🤔
Perhaps full engine if I can find one.

I had nothing to loose as labour for stripping engine and replacing head gasket on labour alone would be £400 plus  VAT that I was quoted,  plus parts. Hindsight is  a wonderful thing.

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Nick W

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #83 on: 30 October 2020, 17:55:05 »

One tooth on the belt does not get you to the 10mm previously posted?
If the belt is truly out by only one tooth then the pistons shouldn't have hit the valves.
So a second pair of eyes is a good idea as DG suggested.



It should turnover easily with a standard length 3/8 ratchet on the crank nut, and you can feel a badly mistimed engine doing this.


If you have to use an extension just to turn it, something is badly wrong and forcing it is a terrible idea.



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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #84 on: 30 October 2020, 18:00:00 »

Very true, but if hes lucky he just might not have caused any real damage.
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #85 on: 30 October 2020, 18:07:32 »

One can be hopeful, but I fear your optimism may well be a, er, stretch :-\
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #86 on: 30 October 2020, 18:32:56 »

Very true, but if hes lucky he just might not have caused any real damage.


I'm curious how such damage(whatever it is ??? ) can be done by refitting cylinder heads and timing the cams. And I think that anyone who thinks that having to add extensions to turn a previously free engine is a good idea, probably shouldn't be working on them.
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #87 on: 30 October 2020, 19:11:12 »

Presumably he turned the engine by hand until the pistons and valves touched. Then when it didnt want to turn any further he put a scaffold pole on the end to try and give it a helping hand.
So its a matter of either the valves bent or they didnt. See if it runs o k, and if it doesnt dismantle the engine.
Or, dont bother seeing if it runs ok and dismantle the engine anyway.
Maybe Im missing something ?  :-\
I might be better reading the thread from the start, but its 6 pages long and Im about to go down the pub, so.................... :D
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woolley11

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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #88 on: 30 October 2020, 21:40:10 »

Evening - certainly didnít force it with the scaffold pole - just used it for leverage on the compression stroke.

Turned it by hand easy enough then hit the compression cycle so it became very stiff - hence the pole. It met solid resistance after a few degrees, so left it at that.

10mm was a perhaps a over-estimate - it is more or less a tooth and a bit.

Iíve got a client whoís a mechanic and agreed heíll look at (and hopefully fix - subject to bottom end damage) it for me - in lieu of my fee.

Think once heads off all will be revealed.
 
Iíll report back. I canít pics up easy on this site unfortunately
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Re: Changing head gasket - locking tools?
« Reply #89 on: 21 November 2020, 20:20:04 »

Evening gents

Just an update.....

Iíve sold the car as a non runner so itís gone to pastures new.

Thereís some work to do on it but the guy is more than up for a challenge.

Itís a bit of closure and sad to see her go , but itís got a good home.

Iíll concentrate on my other MV6 now and enjoy that 😊
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