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[Doctor Gollum]

You can't reset something if it's unplugged

[Varche]

In a few years time the lack of fiscal union or indeed unity on rule of law coupled with the 750 billion Covid fund is going to be a serious problem for Brussels . Britain will do well being f that.

[B52]

TheBoy: yes, I'm not totally convinced by that either - there must be SNP supporters who would prefer to be out of the UK and the EU. And at the same time, the UK government has consistently opposed Scottish independence even when it's following a brexit policy.

I get that it's not entirely the same thing, but the basic question is whether being within or outside a territorial union is fundamentally better - in that sense, a brexit supporter should also support Scottish independence on principle, and a Scottish independence supporter should support brexit. But it doesn't look like that.

Aside from that, I think the UK/EU talks are going won't have much to do with independence ideology, more about cold, hard cash. The UK has more than a bit of history trying to join Europe, going back to Macmillan and Heath - they must have seen a net benefit, and had to overcome opposition to entry here and in Europe.

Which I think is becoming the key difficulty now. Boris and Co are aiming to leave but somehow hold onto the benefit, and the EU will obviously not allow that easily. I don't see any easy solutions and am left wondering A. what fudgey compromise we're going to end up with and B. whether going about it the way we have was ideal.

It might have been more prudent to push for change from within instead of from outside - we did that successfully before. But we've kind of managed to get ourselves between a rock and a hard place now. And left it very late to resolve.

[redelitev6]

I don't see what the problem is , we tell Johnny Foreigner what we want and they give it to us , after all, isn't that what Nigel and Boris said would happen ? 

[Doctor Gollum]

I don't see what the problem is , we tell Johnny Foreigner what we want and they give it to us , after all, isn't that what Nigel and Boris said would happen ? 

Seems that the EU might not agree

Not that they seriously expected to...

WTO exists for a reason...basically 4 years trying to be bullied into agreeing with a series of proposals that are completely at odds with leaving the EU in the hope that staying in would seem more palatable than leaving. And the media and EU expect it to all be sorted on a cold, damp Saturday three weeks before an arbitrary date 11 months after we already left.

[TheBoy]

I don't see what the problem is , we tell Johnny Foreigner what we want and they give it to us , after all, isn't that what Nigel and Boris said would happen ? 

Seems that the EU might not agree

Not that they seriously expected to...

WTO exists for a reason...basically 4 years trying to be bullied into agreeing with a series of proposals that are completely at odds with leaving the EU in the hope that staying in would seem more palatable than leaving. And the media and EU expect it to all be sorted on a cold, damp Saturday three weeks before an arbitrary date 11 months after we already left.

You forget, the UK has been the ones chasing a deal.  Because businesses know that can't compete in their biggest market with a 10% overhead...   ...on top of a 10% overhead if they need to import raw materials.

But there's always Canada. So thats OK them.

[Doctor Gollum]

Obviously a deal is preferred but the EU won't agree just because... just as they look to be agreed, they throw another spanner in which completely alters the balance of the previous agreements.

So why waste time humouring all the posturing, could easily have spent the last four years sorting things like investment in farming and healthcare

[Nick W]

I don't see what the problem is , we tell Johnny Foreigner what we want and they give it to us , after all, isn't that what Nigel and Boris said would happen ? 

Seems that the EU might not agree

Not that they seriously expected to...

WTO exists for a reason...basically 4 years trying to be bullied into agreeing with a series of proposals that are completely at odds with leaving the EU in the hope that staying in would seem more palatable than leaving. And the media and EU expect it to all be sorted on a cold, damp Saturday three weeks before an arbitrary date 11 months after we already left.

And from the other viewpoint, four years of us insisting we get all the trade advantages without being a member or any other reciprocal offers.


Continually stating we'll walk away without any deal, doing so, and then going back to negotiations with the same demands is a stunningly poor 'tactic.'

[B52]

I think that's why it feels so frustrating - and worrying.

Frustrating, because the UK government could and absolutely should have seen this coming from the start and mitigated against it. Instead, we've been playing a largely reactive and time-wasting game for 4 years. And look where it's got/getting us.

Worrying, because it's reasonable to expect any UK government to (mostly) do its job competently and effectively. Not all the time, but they should be 100% on their game in a major issue like leaving the EU. I don't see that happening in brexit at all and it leads to obvious doubt over other things.

[STEMO]

Albs doesn't care about any of this as long as we can somehow stick it to the French. 

Oh.....and probably the Irish.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Much of the blame for where we ended up lies at Treasonous Mays door, along with her appointed negotiator Olly Robbins.  He and Mrs weak and wobbly took the whole Brexit process down a blind alley and it ended up one hell of a mess. The woman is a waste of skin and fresh air. Robbins told Verhofstadt that he wanted to become a Belgian citizen post Brexit, so that tells us all we need to know about her chief negotiator. 
My impression of the chief negotiator now (David Frost) is that he is pretty good and will get a worthwhile deal, if one is possibly available.
According to the press Barnier had to pause the talks because he had compromised as much as his remit allowed him to, which is why Boris and President Ursulla wotsername had to have a chat, and have now authorised the negotiators to start talking again tomorrow,
Whatever happens it will go right down to the wire. EU negotiations always have.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Albs doesn't care about any of this as long as we can somehow stick it to the French. 

Oh.....and probably the Irish.

Should have nuked both of them a long time ago. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

So Boris is going to Brussels in a last ditch attempt to seal a deal! 

Has he blinked? 

Or will he bend Ursula over the desk and make her beg for mercy? 

[B52]

The cynic in me suspects that Boris doesn't have a clue what he is doing and will try to gosh-crumbs-isn't-this-jolly a way through.

At the risk of stating the obvious, he isn't Margaret Thatcher.

[Doctor Gollum]

They can't seem to get their heads around the fact that we won't agree to being bound by their rules and conditions...

And we want our fish...

And it's not that we won't leave without a deal... After all, we LEFT in January