Oh dear 2

[STEMO]

At 2p per km, my road tax would cost me about £480 a year, up from £220, and would cost wifey around £350, up from £30.........just to get to work.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-9521283/Per-mile-road-pricing-effective-way-plug-Treasurys-40bn-tax-hole.html

[BazaJT]

Well they've got to do something to claw back all the revenue they'll be losing with the takeover of EV's.

[deviator]

What scares me is the fact the government seem to be approaching this like a rudderless ship.

Go back a few years and the government was saying, 'Buy a diesel, they're green!' Pause for a few years. 'Don't buy a diesel, you are killing us all!'.

Now they are saying 'Buy an electric car!', excuse me while I cynically avoid the advice given.

[Nick W]

What scares me is the fact the government seem to be approaching this like a rudderless ship.

Go back a few years and the government was saying, 'Buy a diesel, they're green!' Pause for a few years. 'Don't buy a diesel, you are killing us all!'.

Now they are saying 'Buy an electric car!', excuse me while I cynically avoid the advice given.

It's always been like that. Diesels were promoted by politicians as a quick, easy, total cure to the concerns about CO2 emissions from petrol cars. The thing now is particulate emissions from diesels, but anyone had ever seen a diesel in use would have known that would be the downside.


EVs are suggested as the complete answer, but again they have some important disadvantages that are rarely mentioned by  decision makers. That's because politicians always favour short term solutions that make obvious changes, and rarely take the time to understand the whole problem. Especially when the only solution is for everyone to dramatically reduce their energy usage.

[Varche]

2p per km!

Shouldn't that be 2 cents per km OR 2p per 0.625 mile .

One thing charging per mile would do is encourage more walking rather than using a car for convenience.

[deviator]

How do they intend to enforce/track/manage it?

If they do it via yearly MOT, people will start clocking cars again. If they go for a blackbox, then the costs are epic and I've no doubt a faraday cage would limit a blackbox.

It's difficult to implement those style of recording without doing it at the manufacturing stage.

The fairest way is to put it on fuel, but they wouldn't just add 2p, they'd add a lot more. I've said this for years, do away with road tax, add a penny to each litre of fuel and you'd get about the same amount, but with the added benefit of those who drive more, pay more and those who avoid paying to use a car, will still get stung for road tax equivalent at the pump. It would also save millions in being able to get rid of a large section of the DVLA. Sadly I don't trust any government to implement this in a sensible way, they are too greedy.

[Nick W]

Your post gives all of the reasons why any mileage charge will always be in addition to roadtax, which is relatively easy to administer and hard to avoid. That's why they went to it instead of just fuel tax in 1909. It's been in place for so long we're all very used to paying it. It also has the advantage of knowing roughly how much money you're going to raise.


Infrastructure costs are hidden, so the general public has no idea just how expensive things actually are.

[Marks DTM Calib]

What scares me is the fact the government seem to be approaching this like a rudderless ship.

Go back a few years and the government was saying, 'Buy a diesel, they're green!' Pause for a few years. 'Don't buy a diesel, you are killing us all!'.

Now they are saying 'Buy an electric car!', excuse me while I cynically avoid the advice given.

It's always been like that. Diesels were promoted by politicians as a quick, easy, total cure to the concerns about CO2 emissions from petrol cars. The thing now is particulate emissions from diesels, but anyone had ever seen a diesel in use would have known that would be the downside.


EVs are suggested as the complete answer, but again they have some important disadvantages that are rarely mentioned by  decision makers. That's because politicians always favour short term solutions that make obvious changes, and rarely take the time to understand the whole problem. Especially when the only solution is for everyone to dramatically reduce their energy usage.

Its not particulates, its the NOx emissions that are (were) the issue

Hence the rise of AdBlue and selective catalytic reduction (and VAG not bothering to fit it and winding up the EGR to compensate when in test mode)   

[STEMO]

How do they intend to enforce/track/manage it?

If they do it via yearly MOT, people will start clocking cars again. If they go for a blackbox, then the costs are epic and I've no doubt a faraday cage would limit a blackbox.

It's difficult to implement those style of recording without doing it at the manufacturing stage.

The fairest way is to put it on fuel, but they wouldn't just add 2p, they'd add a lot more. I've said this for years, do away with road tax, add a penny to each litre of fuel and you'd get about the same amount, but with the added benefit of those who drive more, pay more and those who avoid paying to use a car, will still get stung for road tax equivalent at the pump. It would also save millions in being able to get rid of a large section of the DVLA. Sadly I don't trust any government to implement this in a sensible way, they are too greedy.

That's a bit arse about face. The idea is that there won't be any fuel to tax, we'll all be running EVs, or there would be no need to change the current fuel duty system.

[STEMO]

Besides, EVs don't use fuel, so they would have to have a separate pence per mile system. Much easier to lump all vehicles into that system. When I say easier, it will be far from easy.

There is a massive percentage of households that have nowhere for a charging point to be installed, no off street parking, blocks of flats, etc. How does the new system work for them. I heard a ridiculous idea mooted about charging points in every lamp post. The whole network would have to be dug up and upgraded for that to happen.

I could list a thousand problems, but it would make no difference. The government will continue to spout this shite right up until it becomes apparent that they haven't got a hope in hell of implementing it. By then, they will have spent billions on trying (HS2 anyone?) and, probably, milked the motorist for most of it.

[STEMO]

And, of course, our little island contributes between 1 and 2% of global emissions. We could completely switch off everything and the emissions we saved would be generated by China in a couple of days.
I don't have an answer, but this posturing appears to be no more than an effort to placate the lentil munchers.

[Sir Tigger KC]

The lentil munchers are possibly the most dangerous people in Britain at the mo.....   

[STEMO]

The lentil munchers are possibly the most dangerous people in Britain at the mo.....   

Closely followed by wokists.......

[deviator]

There is a massive percentage of households that have nowhere for a charging point to be installed

There are an even bigger percentage of households who don't have a petrol station in their gardens. If fast charging stations take off, it won't be an issue. As most people would need to fill up 1-2 times a week. There is no reason one of those charging sessions can't be a fast charge whilst you wander around the supermarket.

[STEMO]

There is a massive percentage of households that have nowhere for a charging point to be installed

There are an even bigger percentage of households who don't have a petrol station in their gardens. If fast charging stations take off, it won't be an issue. As most people would need to fill up 1-2 times a week. There is no reason one of those charging sessions can't be a fast charge whilst you wander around the supermarket.

If you are under the impression that the infrastructure to support the millions of cars in the UK can be built in 20 years, then you are deluded. Also, it takes five minutes to fill a car with fuel, possibly once a week. If you think that two/ three two hour charges at the supermarket/charging station is ok, then feel free to waste six hours a week of your life wandering around Tesco.