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[addy]

Could anyone tell me, before I undo them. If the four female Torx Head bolts, allow the back plate dust shield, to move?  The reason I am asking is that, I am completely rebuilding the handbrake on the wifes 1995 Omega. The pins that are on it to hold the shoes, are the old type that twisted into the backing plate. The new ones come through the backing plate. I have read the modification Vauxhall did from the old style to the way the later style. Just want to confirm everything.  The Torx bolts I am on about can be seen, on the back plate and the new pin setup in the hub bearing guide.



Thanks in advance for any help.
Addy

[Nick W]

If you've tried a Torx bit in those bolts, then you've rounded them out. Especially if they've never been undone before.




They aren't Torx, but an earlier 12 spline bolt. For some reason. I think they're the only spline drive bolts on the whole car. oppsing Germans   The bit in my set for these is marked M10, but I don't know what that means as the bolts are M8... oppsing Germans




What are you hoping to achieve changing the pins, as the later style aren't particularly well located in the holes and you can't put a finger on the back to steady them. Fitting the springs can be interesting with the hub in place. ALWAYS assemble the handbrake before you fit the hub. This whole driveshaft/drive flange/hub/handbrake arrangement is way more complicated than it needs to be and is nuisance to work on. oppsing Germans

[Andy H]

When the keyholes in the backplates on my 1994 Omega became too rusty for the retainers to get a grip I bought a set of early Passat (that what it said on the packet anyway) retainers.

I was able to insert them from behind in the same way as the later Omega retainers. I didn't need to pull the backplates off. Don't know if the Passat retainers are different to the Omega ones

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

Ive never done it, but can you not work on it in situ, cut the old pins off and drill it through (assuming the new ones mount in the same spot) rather than risking getting three bolts out and one that will round?

I do have a multispline bit set you're welcome to borrow

[addy]

Andy H.

This is what has happened to the pin retaining holes. So wanted to do the same as you had done. I can get to the one hole, but cannot see the other, will have another look in a while.

Hi Nick W. Thank you for the advice. I haven't touched the bolts, wanted to check before touching them first.

Thanks for all the help.

[Andy H]

It is definitely doable. I was convinced it wouldn't work but by persevering I was able to wriggle the awkward retainer in from behind.
You need to do it by touch, if you try to see where the hole is you will get an eye full of crap.

I may have distorted the hole a little (& flattened it again after) to get the retainer in but it was so long ago that I can't remember whether I had to go that far.

[Nick W]

Andy H.

This is what has happened to the pin retaining holes. So wanted to do the same as you had done. I can get to the one hole, but cannot see the other, will have another look in a while.

Hi Nick W. Thank you for the advice. I haven't touched the bolts, wanted to check before touching them first.

Thanks for all the help.

You could fix it in no time without removing the plate:


Drill or Dremel the holes a bit bigger
Buy some new pins
Fit them through some appropriately sized repair washers
Weld the washers to the back plate. You could probably epoxy them in place if you don't mind it taking a little longer.
Reassemble the handbrake shoes.

[Enceladus]

We repaired a '96 car in a similar manner to Nick W's suggestion. One of the pins had pulled through the backplate and damaged the locking slot. We used the slotted cap washer from a new pin as the repair washer, tack welded to the backplate, so the pin could still be inserted from the outboard side.

The bolts have female M10 XZN heads. XZN is also called 'triple square'. It's not Torx. Normally you need an extra long bit to reach through the hole in the hub flange. Looks like you have removed your hub, so have better access.

The backplate itself doesn't have to be completely removed, just moved outboard enough to allow the revised pins to be inserted from the inboard side. That's what you are supposed to do if the hub was still present.

Be careful with your backplates. They're scarcer than rocking horse dung.

[Doctor Gollum]

That picture is from the rear bearing change guide

[addy]

That picture is from the rear bearing change guide

You are correct. I borrowed it to show the bolts I was on about. I have had another look, I cannot seem to find anyway to put the pin in from the back. But it doesn't matter at the moment.

Now got another problem. The newer style fixing pins are longer than the original ones, that just twisted into the back plate. Also the new spring that fits on the pin, is wider than the original. This is causing the shoes to not fit correct.  The ones I need apparently fit the SENATOR, ROYALE, CARLTON and OMEGA, plus some old Vectras.

Thanks for all the help.
Addy

Thanks for any help. Addy

[Enceladus]

I believe you need Mintex fitting kit MBA667 or equivalent. The kit used on Carlton and Senator and others. See here.

Trouble is to get an original kit as opposed to the supersession kit which I think is Mintex MBA711. The picture in the link for the kit looks to be the correct kit, albeit some other make.

Or buy a long M10 XZN bit and see can you loosen the backplate bolts? If you can then the new pins will fit in from the inboard side.

[Nick W]

Now got another problem. The newer style fixing pins are longer than the original ones, that just twisted into the back plate. Also the new spring that fits on the pin, is wider than the original. This is causing the shoes to not fit correct.  The ones I need apparently fit the SENATOR, ROYALE, CARLTON and OMEGA, plus some old Vectras.

What does the spring is wider mean? Is it longer(which is what I think you mean), larger diameter coils, or larger diameter wire?


If it's too long, cut it down. I doubt it's a bigger diameter, but if it is you need the matching cap.


All these springs do is gently hold the shoes against the backplate so they can't move towards the hub and rub/catch on something. as long as that's happening, it's all good.




Triple Squares - I knew there was a correct term for 'spline drive bolt'

[LC0112G]

I've never managed to get all 4 of those bolts out without mullah-ing at least one of them. The spline head is made of something softer than cheese and rounds off very easily. I then end up angle grinding a slot in the head and then chiseling it round, which obviously means you need some more bolts for re-fitting. Not actually sheared a head off yet, but it's always a worry.

The new style pins, springs and cup washers do fit old Carltons/Senators etc without modifications, so I'm not sure why you can't get them to work on your car. They are a real faff though - one of those things where you really need 3 hands. AFAIKR unlike what others are saying I think you do have to get the backing plate off/loose first to get the new pin in from the back. Or I suppose you could prize the old slot open enough to get the head of the new pin in and then hammer/weld/glue it back in again. Not something I'd do, but....

[LC0112G]

Now got another problem. The newer style fixing pins are longer than the original ones, that just twisted into the back plate. Also the new spring that fits on the pin, is wider than the original. This is causing the shoes to not fit correct.  The ones I need apparently fit the SENATOR, ROYALE, CARLTON and OMEGA, plus some old Vectras.

What does the spring is wider mean? Is it longer(which is what I think you mean), larger diameter coils, or larger diameter wire?


If it's too long, cut it down. I doubt it's a bigger diameter, but if it is you need the matching cap.


All these springs do is gently hold the shoes against the backplate so they can't move towards the hub and rub/catch on something. as long as that's happening, it's all good.




Triple Squares - I knew there was a correct term for 'spline drive bolt'

From memory, the new style springs are a larger diameter (getting on for double), similar length, but much thinner wire diameter (perhaps half). They have to be wider diameter for the outboard end to sit in the flangy bit of the cup retainer thingy.

[polilara]

Is it so that new back plates are not available anymore. I remember that I read somewhere that "new production plates" could be found. If hub is away and you can open the four bolts I would install new plate...