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[STEMO]

Perhaps they have an OOF member as an expert adviser ? 

Who dat den? 

[Doctor Gollum]

Oft chanted that Britain is attractive because it is easy to get work as an illegal. Might be right.plenty of businesses looking for cheap labour despite there are supposed to be “ controls”.

Here is what the French said on Euronews.

“ French interior minister Gerald Darmanin, meanwhile, reiterated France's call for the UK to reform their labour market.

"It is also the attractiveness of Great Britain which is in question, in particular its labour market, since everyone knows that there are a million, more than a million, 1,200,000 illegal immigrants in Great Britain and that English employers use this labour to manufacture the things that the English consume," he told RTL“

That seems like a lot! 1 in 70?

Note the phrase everybody knows. That is always code for here are some statistics that I totally made up to 'prove' my point.
Such statements should always be ridiculed for being mendacious, manipulative bullshit.
Unfortunately, they never are.

He might well be right and there may well be over a million people living in the UK who have no right to be here. 

Over two decades of hand wringing and looking the other way by successive governments have seen to that. 

There might be. There might not. That's not the point, which is that everybody knows is just playing to the gallery. If the number is 1 in 70 as originally posted, then it wouldn't be too hard to prove as everyone in the country would be able to name names. Can we do that as a group, let alone individuals?


That could be applied to other undesirable(I know, and would welcome a better word) groups, like homosexuals LGBTetc, religious extremists, communists, child molesters, pronoun evangelists and all the other extreme minorities we're constantly being told are taking over. I have known, and still do know some, of all of those groups except the pronouns; I would be astonished if anyone else could claim any different.

Be astonished. I don't know anyone that's gay, male or female, and I don't know anyone who's black.

.   


I'm the opposite I know all of those mentioned , HMPS seemed to attract two types of females Lesbians & the " bicycle" type plenty of black/Asian officers + several gay males but nobody made a big deal of it and in my 20+ years  only one black officer played the race card at my establishment.

To put a balance on that, I know of all those categories - inside the police service and outside it, as I did in the retail field and personally.

Steve you haven’t lived, but there again why would everyone who is, say lesbian or gay, tell you they are?

They may know you would have no understanding of their lives.

And she's off...

You presume that he, or any body else, cared to ask because quite simply any number of those labels don't matter. The only people who worry about such things are people afraid to be cancelled or vilified for not towing the line.

To suggest that STEMO hasn't lived is like me suggesting that you actually understand why we don't care what colour or flavour someone's rainbow happens to be.

[Doctor Gollum]

A boat load of people drowned in the Channel and TRE* makes it about divisity.

Only on OOF.

*We call it The Resident Expert because...

[Nick W]

When are the UK government going to start shipping them off to Albania?

Been shelved. They looked at some remote places like Ascension island.

Why hasn’t Boris asked the EU why they weren’t given asylum in the country of entry? They did not parachute into Northern France?

It was an asinine idea anyway. By the time you've spent money taking them to, and keeping them in another country, it would have been easier, quicker and cheaper to employ fewer people able to expedite the paperwork and deport or allow them in legally.

[STEMO]

Reading back, through this thread and others, it appears that most of them, sooner or later, head in the same direction. I don't have to enlarge on that, I'm sure you know what I mean.
It's beginning to define the forum. People's views are entrenched and there seems to be no chance of compromise. (How can there be?)
I know I say things which I regret later, but that's how slanging matches work. What is said on here can never change anything in the real world and, personally, I think I'm devoting a bit too much of my day to it.
So, in future, I'm steering clear when things start to head in that direction. I'm self cancelling. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Oft chanted that Britain is attractive because it is easy to get work as an illegal. Might be right.plenty of businesses looking for cheap labour despite there are supposed to be “ controls”.

Here is what the French said on Euronews.

“ French interior minister Gerald Darmanin, meanwhile, reiterated France's call for the UK to reform their labour market.

"It is also the attractiveness of Great Britain which is in question, in particular its labour market, since everyone knows that there are a million, more than a million, 1,200,000 illegal immigrants in Great Britain and that English employers use this labour to manufacture the things that the English consume," he told RTL“

That seems like a lot! 1 in 70?

Note the phrase everybody knows. That is always code for here are some statistics that I totally made up to 'prove' my point.
Such statements should always be ridiculed for being mendacious, manipulative bullshit.
Unfortunately, they never are.

He might well be right and there may well be over a million people living in the UK who have no right to be here. 

Over two decades of hand wringing and looking the other way by successive governments have seen to that. 

There might be. There might not. That's not the point, which is that everybody knows is just playing to the gallery. If the number is 1 in 70 as originally posted, then it wouldn't be too hard to prove as everyone in the country would be able to name names. Can we do that as a group, let alone individuals?


That could be applied to other undesirable(I know, and would welcome a better word) groups, like homosexuals LGBTetc, religious extremists, communists, child molesters, pronoun evangelists and all the other extreme minorities we're constantly being told are taking over. I have known, and still do know some, of all of those groups except the pronouns; I would be astonished if anyone else could claim any different.

Be astonished. I don't know anyone that's gay, male or female, and I don't know anyone who's black.

.   


I'm the opposite I know all of those mentioned , HMPS seemed to attract two types of females Lesbians & the " bicycle" type plenty of black/Asian officers + several gay males but nobody made a big deal of it and in my 20+ years  only one black officer played the race card at my establishment.

To put a balance on that, I know of all those categories - inside the police service and outside it, as I did in the retail field and personally.

Steve you haven’t lived, but there again why would everyone who is, say lesbian or gay, tell you they are?

They may know you would have no understanding of their lives.

And she's off...

You presume that he, or any body else, cared to ask because quite simply any number of those labels don't matter. The only people who worry about such things are people afraid to be cancelled or vilified for not towing the line.

To suggest that STEMO hasn't lived is like me suggesting that you actually understand why we don't care what colour or flavour someone's rainbow happens to be.

Here you go again!!

It was STEMO in post #43 that started off the subject of not knowing any lesbians, gays, blacks, and Nick W who posted afterwards that he had known those during his HMP service, to which I simply replied that I have also known plenty in my sphere of life.  For STEMO to have raised the subject prompted we to joke he had never lived!

Now typical it is all MY fault!!!

If people do not like my responses on this subject, then don’t fxcking post such statements touching on diversity labels.

Those lost in the Channel are all God’s children, just like you and me. End of.  No need to touch on colour of skin, or sexual preferences which, I FULLY AGREE, has nothing to do with this thread!!

More importantly No one has touched on TB’s #44 post ;  all I will say is that not only did 23 men die, but a heavily pregnant woman, a young girl, and two teenagers. That IS precious life lost, nothing to be dismissed as “what a shame……….      ……….it was only 27” as TB did.

But none of you care or have the balls to say “out of order!”  and  Expressing why you think it is.

Has the OOF slumped to that level now?  It used to be a friendly, almost un-offensive family friendly forum to be on until certain elements took over.

And you wonder why I make my feelings known!!  I wonder at times, but my Omega still has priority along with the knowledge that there others on here who feel as I do.

[dave the builder]

TB's point is valid , people learn from mistakes afterwards ,often when it's too late .
those people CHOOSE to get on the dingy/boat ,a gamble that didn't pay off for them 

If large numbers die trying to cross the channel then that will be a deterrent for others to try 
the UK and French governments efforts are clearly no deterrent at present 

Whilst I appreciate there are millions of people in this world living in horrific situations and should be helped  .....
 people who made it to Europe mainland with thousands of pounds to pay traffickers for risky channel crossings  would be better off staying in Europe and claiming asylum, using their money more wisely .
the UK is a tiny rock, it can't sustain the people already here 
 we don't have the land mass for farming enough food ,and haven't for years   ,let alone enough room for housing the current 70 million people 
With such a densely populated country , things like rapid spread of diseases ,like Chinese Virus and future more deadly diseases ,air quality etc means we need to pull up the drawbridge ,sort out our own poor, hungry, ill and homeless FIRST

that may come across as harsh and uncaring ,even unpalatable to some, BUT , the UK can NOT continue picking up the tab for other countries BAD CHOICES ,lack of planning and disasters
Because the UK has enough of it's own 

[Lizzie Zoom]

TB's point is valid , people learn from mistakes afterwards ,often when it's too late .
those people CHOOSE to get on the dingy/boat ,a gamble that didn't pay off for them 

If large numbers die trying to cross the channel then that will be a deterrent for others to try 
the UK and French governments efforts are clearly no deterrent at present 

Whilst I appreciate there are millions of people in this world living in horrific situations and should be helped  .....
 people who made it to Europe mainland with thousands of pounds to pay traffickers for risky channel crossings  would be better off staying in Europe and claiming asylum, using their money more wisely .
the UK is a tiny rock, it can't sustain the people already here 
 we don't have the land mass for farming enough food ,and haven't for years   ,let alone enough room for housing the current 70 million people 
With such a densely populated country , things like rapid spread of diseases ,like Chinese Virus and future more deadly diseases ,air quality etc means we need to pull up the drawbridge ,sort out our own poor, hungry, ill and homeless FIRST

that may come across as harsh and uncaring ,even unpalatable to some, BUT , the UK can NOT continue picking up the tab for other countries BAD CHOICES ,lack of planning and disasters
Because the UK has enough of it's own 

That is a fair response Dave, outlining a lot of the issues surrounding a subject that I doubt anyone has an answer to.  It should be remembered though that the UK takes in a fraction of migrants that France, Germany, Greece, and other European countries accept and house.

Family first is an old saying, but we in this country mostly originate from being immigrants, and we have a history of taking in the vulnerable and those living in fear of their lives.  Where do we stop doing that?  I do not know, and obviously our leaders don’t know either!

I do think TB’s response was harsh and living up to his rather public uncaring style, although I know behind the scenes he is a big softy.  So let’s consider his manner “unfortunate” and a reflection of what others may think.

[Sir Tigger KC]

So the French have thrown their toys out of the pram over the open letter that Boris sent to Macron. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

So the French have thrown their toys out of the pram over the open letter that Boris sent to Macron. 

Yep, the French never change!

[Doctor Gollum]

Actually, Nick made mention. Stemo simply said that he wasn't aware of knowing (or being bothered by) any one of that group.

Then you got you bits in a wad. So yes, off you went again.

Whether TB has any compassion or not isn't a matter of debate. That's for him to deal with and for you to accept.

Ultimately those deaths are on the French authorities for so blatantly allowing them to set out... After all, what's the most likely outcome of setting out in an overloaded open boat in late November during Spring tides?

Why should a charity be expected to rescue every single person all of the time when what they are doing is no more legal or sensible than taking a boat out drunk?

As tragic as it is that people are literally dying to get here, that's their choice and the risk they take in spite of having travelled through several equally pleasant places to get to French France.

And for all its faults, ie the French French, France is actually an underpopulated place of truly diverse landscapes. Certainly there are warmer places to go.

People are regularly washed up in the Canaries, and they're several times further from Africa than the Channel crossing. Those that make it are swiftly rounded up and taken to a secure compound and deported at the first opportunity. 127 arrived on Gran Canaria the other day. I don't remember seeing that on the news here

Short of population the Channel with aggressive, hungry Bull and Tiger sharks, there's not much to be done to make the crossing any harder, and again, for the costs involved, there are better ways to travel.

One way or another these people will keep coming and it is cheaper for us to provide for them than not as crime rates would rise exponentially forcing them to steal food etc.

The only deterrent is the ultimate one, but even that won't stop them coming. Ultimately that's why Poland stopped at water cannons and tear gas even though they were well within their rights to robustly defend their border. How many of those are going to die cold, wet and hungry in the forests of Eastern Europe? Given that choice, getting shot may be considered merciful.

[dave the builder]

That is a fair response Dave, outlining a lot of the issues surrounding a subject that I doubt anyone has an answer to.  It should be remembered though that the UK takes in a fraction of migrants that France, Germany, Greece, and other European countries accept and house.

compare the "fraction" to land mass Lizzie . we are a tiny island .

Family first is an old saying, but we in this country mostly originate from being immigrants, and we have a history of taking in the vulnerable and those living in fear of their lives.  Where do we stop doing that?  I do not know, and obviously our leaders don’t know either!

Pretty simple really ,we stop NOW ,the UK is beyond full 
there's plenty of land mass with low/no population elsewhere in the world , such land requires workers to farm it, build infrastructure etc
there are plenty of "workers" in the form of the migrants This thread is about .

I do think TB’s response was harsh and living up to his rather public uncaring style, although I know behind the scenes he is a big softy.  So let’s consider his manner “unfortunate” and a reflection of what others may think.

TB is a nice bloke , his comment may seen harsh to some ,but we need Balance to counteract wishy washy woke do gooders   

[Rangie]

Oft chanted that Britain is attractive because it is easy to get work as an illegal. Might be right.plenty of businesses looking for cheap labour despite there are supposed to be “ controls”.

Here is what the French said on Euronews.

“ French interior minister Gerald Darmanin, meanwhile, reiterated France's call for the UK to reform their labour market.

"It is also the attractiveness of Great Britain which is in question, in particular its labour market, since everyone knows that there are a million, more than a million, 1,200,000 illegal immigrants in Great Britain and that English employers use this labour to manufacture the things that the English consume," he told RTL“

That seems like a lot! 1 in 70?

Note the phrase everybody knows. That is always code for here are some statistics that I totally made up to 'prove' my point.
Such statements should always be ridiculed for being mendacious, manipulative bullshit.
Unfortunately, they never are.

He might well be right and there may well be over a million people living in the UK who have no right to be here. 

Over two decades of hand wringing and looking the other way by successive governments have seen to that. 

There might be. There might not. That's not the point, which is that everybody knows is just playing to the gallery. If the number is 1 in 70 as originally posted, then it wouldn't be too hard to prove as everyone in the country would be able to name names. Can we do that as a group, let alone individuals?


That could be applied to other undesirable(I know, and would welcome a better word) groups, like homosexuals LGBTetc, religious extremists, communists, child molesters, pronoun evangelists and all the other extreme minorities we're constantly being told are taking over. I have known, and still do know some, of all of those groups except the pronouns; I would be astonished if anyone else could claim any different.

Be astonished. I don't know anyone that's gay, male or female, and I don't know anyone who's black.

.   


I'm the opposite I know all of those mentioned , HMPS seemed to attract two types of females Lesbians & the " bicycle" type plenty of black/Asian officers + several gay males but nobody made a big deal of it and in my 20+ years  only one black officer played the race card at my establishment.

To put a balance on that, I know of all those categories - inside the police service and outside it, as I did in the retail field and personally.

Steve you haven’t lived, but there again why would everyone who is, say lesbian or gay, tell you they are?

They may know you would have no understanding of their lives.

And she's off...

You presume that he, or any body else, cared to ask because quite simply any number of those labels don't matter. The only people who worry about such things are people afraid to be cancelled or vilified for not towing the line.

To suggest that STEMO hasn't lived is like me suggesting that you actually understand why we don't care what colour or flavour someone's rainbow happens to be.

Here you go again!!

It was STEMO in post #43 that started off the subject of not knowing any lesbians, gays, blacks, and Nick W who posted afterwards that he had known those during his HMP service, to which I simply replied that I have also known plenty in my sphere of life.  For STEMO to have raised the subject prompted we to joke he had never lived!

Now typical it is all MY fault!!!

If people do not like my responses on this subject, then don’t fxcking post such statements touching on diversity labels.

Those lost in the Channel are all God’s children, just like you and me. End of.  No need to touch on colour of skin, or sexual preferences which, I FULLY AGREE, has nothing to do with this thread!!

More importantly No one has touched on TB’s #44 post ;  all I will say is that not only did 23 men die, but a heavily pregnant woman, a young girl, and two teenagers. That IS precious life lost, nothing to be dismissed as “what a shame……….      ……….it was only 27” as TB did.

But none of you care or have the balls to say “out of order!”  and  Expressing why you think it is.

Has the OOF slumped to that level now?  It used to be a friendly, almost un-offensive family friendly forum to be on until certain elements took over.

And you wonder why I make my feelings known!!  I wonder at times, but my Omega still has priority along with the knowledge that there others on here who feel as I do.

.   


I'll say it again Lizzie ignore some of the total imbeciles on here , I've a headcount of 3 that I completely ignore on here my thinking is would I give them the time of day in real life , absolutely not they try to be clever with ridiculous comments but are just too stupid to realise how they appear.

[Lizzie Zoom]

That is a fair response Dave, outlining a lot of the issues surrounding a subject that I doubt anyone has an answer to.  It should be remembered though that the UK takes in a fraction of migrants that France, Germany, Greece, and other European countries accept and house.

compare the "fraction" to land mass Lizzie . we are a tiny island .

Family first is an old saying, but we in this country mostly originate from being immigrants, and we have a history of taking in the vulnerable and those living in fear of their lives.  Where do we stop doing that?  I do not know, and obviously our leaders don’t know either!

Pretty simple really ,we stop NOW ,the UK is beyond full 
there's plenty of land mass with low/no population elsewhere in the world , such land requires workers to farm it, build infrastructure etc
there are plenty of "workers" in the form of the migrants This thread is about .

I do think TB’s response was harsh and living up to his rather public uncaring style, although I know behind the scenes he is a big softy.  So let’s consider his manner “unfortunate” and a reflection of what others may think.

TB is a nice bloke , his comment may seen harsh to some ,but we need Balance to counteract wishy washy woke do gooders 

Some Dave will find it hard to believe but I, as a right winger by nature on most subjects (but not Diversity before someone shouts out because I have read history and fear what man can do against fellow mankind in minority groups), do agree with the idea of a “balance” considering both the needs of the very troubled migrants, and our desperate requirements as a nation to meet the needs of our own desperate peoples who need housing, a sound health service, and just general land space that is disappearing all too fast. That’s what I meant by no one, unless you are God, has an answer to all that.

Do we patrol the channel with gun boats and kill men, women and children if we have to to stop them, or make coming into our country through the official routes easier, or do we fight all the EU nations to keep the migrants at their borders, with force used as necessary?

I am not going to attempt to answer that as my views could be too strong for some, surprisingly, not TB though, and I think our politicians have got to man or women up to make the decision.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I'll say it again Lizzie ignore some of the total imbeciles on here , I've a headcount of 3 that I completely ignore on here my thinking is would I give them the time of day in real life , absolutely not they try to be clever with ridiculous comments but are just too stupid to realise how they appear.
[/quote]

    Thanks Rangie for your continuing support and advice.

Yes, I know I should say nothing, but I am not like that. It did me well in business and life generally to know to always speak up with my views, even when against the types of people you describe, but far worse, being so called set in their ways men and women, who often were of criminal intent or just wanted to play a business political game in my billion pound empire, I speak up without fear or favour to challenge those causing distress to the highly vulnerable and weak, as my mum, grandmother, and great grandmother did, although the latter used her fists to do so in the Victorian age!

So all the time some want to fire crap at me I will send it back with a bonus attached.