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[STEMO]

And that plays into what I've been saying on here for years. The UK, along with every other European country are no more than shouty, annoying little nations who are living in the past. Our great history means nothing (in fact, it causes hatred) to other nations, we cannot live in the past.
I'm sick of hearing people say we are the 5th or 6th richest country in the world. Someone who earns £1000 a week but spends £1200 and is up to their neck in debt is not as rich as someone who earns half as much but lives within their means.
Of course, all of the European nations could come together and be a force to be reckoned with. But we've tried that and it was, and is, an unmitigated disaster.


In my simplistic view of life, I like to take everything down to the level of the playground. Big boys hit little boys and take their sweeties. Little boys try to suck up to big boys for protection, as we have with the US for years. But big boys aren't fussed if someone hits one of their little boys , as long as they divide the sweeties. The US, Russia and China will be the three superpowers that shape the world in the future, and all of our governments platitudes won't change that.

Now.......all Trump has to do to make himself a true equal partner is to make sure he can't be voted out. Watch this space.

Damn it! I agree with you!!

I would subscribe to the Telegraph if I were you, it's only £1 a week. But be prepared for some depressing facts about out armed forces, our welfare system, our immigration system, etc.

[Rangie]

And that plays into what I've been saying on here for years. The UK, along with every other European country are no more than shouty, annoying little nations who are living in the past. Our great history means nothing (in fact, it causes hatred) to other nations, we cannot live in the past.
I'm sick of hearing people say we are the 5th or 6th richest country in the world. Someone who earns £1000 a week but spends £1200 and is up to their neck in debt is not as rich as someone who earns half as much but lives within their means.
Of course, all of the European nations could come together and be a force to be reckoned with. But we've tried that and it was, and is, an unmitigated disaster.


In my simplistic view of life, I like to take everything down to the level of the playground. Big boys hit little boys and take their sweeties. Little boys try to suck up to big boys for protection, as we have with the US for years. But big boys aren't fussed if someone hits one of their little boys , as long as they divide the sweeties. The US, Russia and China will be the three superpowers that shape the world in the future, and all of our governments platitudes won't change that.

Now.......all Trump has to do to make himself a true equal partner is to make sure he can't be voted out. Watch this space.

Damn it! I agree with you!!

I would subscribe to the Telegraph if I were you, it's only £1 a week. But be prepared for some depressing facts about out armed forces, our welfare system, our immigration system, etc.

.

As I've said previously the UK is well and truly doomed , we know what the answer is but our present government hasn't got the balls to do anything about it, whilst millions is being wasted every day putting up scroungers in hotels.

[Varche]

Well Starmer has nailed his flag by going agin the US and saying Ukraine should be considered for NATO..

Is this the start of the new order? NATO morphs into MOE ( most of Europe) US departs ( but might come back) . MOE steps up spend on defence ( and we all become poorer except holders of shares in defence companies)

Funnily enough, I do agree with Vance that Europe is fractured and losing the plot. Exactly one of the reasons why some folk voted agin UK staying in the EU. However now is no time for the UK to distance itself from a European Army or whatever name it might need.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Well Starmer has nailed his flag by going agin the US and saying Ukraine should be considered for NATO..

Is this the start of the new order? NATO morphs into MOE ( most of Europe) US departs ( but might come back) . MOE steps up spend on defence ( and we all become poorer except holders of shares in defence companies)

Funnily enough, I do agree with Vance that Europe is fractured and losing the plot. Exactly one of the reasons why some folk voted agin UK staying in the EU. However now is no time for the UK to distance itself from a European Army or whatever name it might need.

It's exactly the time to stay out of whatever expensive disfunctional bureaucratic shitshow EU Army they cobble together! 

The UK should keep our money at home, concentrate on building up our own armed forces and defence industries, and cooperate with whatever the EU do, the Yanks, Canadians et al via NATO! 

[Migalot]

Well Starmer has nailed his flag by going agin the US and saying Ukraine should be considered for NATO..

Is this the start of the new order? NATO morphs into MOE ( most of Europe) US departs ( but might come back) . MOE steps up spend on defence ( and we all become poorer except holders of shares in defence companies)

Funnily enough, I do agree with Vance that Europe is fractured and losing the plot. Exactly one of the reasons why some folk voted agin UK staying in the EU. However now is no time for the UK to distance itself from a European Army or whatever name it might need.

A European army is essentially a daft idea. Few countries have the manpower, few countries would be able financially to support the necessary increase in defence spending and, if we wrongly continue to see Russia as the enemy, there is no way we could match its military capabilities. Last, but not least, I believe that there is very little support among the populations at large. Most people in the UK are, I believe, averse to the notion of bombs and death—even if military action appeals to a handful of politicians and armchair warriors. They would not, after all, be on the front line... 

[Varche]

 “Most people in the UK are, I believe, averse to the notion of bombs and death”

Haha. I suspect that applies to “ most people” not just those in the UK.

The only people not averse are the war czars but then they don’t lead from the front but from bombshelters.

[Raeturbo]

I said it before… build a wall around the entire island and arm up to the hilt, chuck all the  unwanted out immediately. And get to making Britain Great again.👍

[Sir Tigger KC]

Well Starmer has nailed his flag by going agin the US and saying Ukraine should be considered for NATO..

Is this the start of the new order? NATO morphs into MOE ( most of Europe) US departs ( but might come back) . MOE steps up spend on defence ( and we all become poorer except holders of shares in defence companies)

Funnily enough, I do agree with Vance that Europe is fractured and losing the plot. Exactly one of the reasons why some folk voted agin UK staying in the EU. However now is no time for the UK to distance itself from a European Army or whatever name it might need.

A European army is essentially a daft idea. Few countries have the manpower, few countries would be able financially to support the necessary increase in defence spending and, if we wrongly continue to see Russia as the enemy, there is no way we could match its military capabilities. Last, but not least, I believe that there is very little support among the populations at large. Most people in the UK are, I believe, averse to the notion of bombs and death—even if military action appeals to a handful of politicians and armchair warriors. They would not, after all, be on the front line...

What military capabilities are those then? 

After three years of invading his much smaller neighbour, Putin's mighty war machine has been bogged down in First World War style trench warfare where they've been grinding forward with incremental gains.  His troops have sustained massive casualties due to the medieval tactics they've used, he's had to resort to conscripting from prisons, faced a very public mutiny and the shortage of armoured vehicles is such that they ferry troops to the front in Ladas, which are often picked off by drones.  He was humiliated when the Ukrainians sank his flagship missile cruiser Moskva and what's left of the Black Sea fleet has largely withdrawn from Sevastopol to the far side of the Black Sea at Novorossiysk, where they are out of range of Ukrainian missiles. Apart from being used as long range missile launch pads, where the targets are usually civilian in nature, the Black Sea fleet is no longer much of a threat.

Where was the 'blitzkrieg'? On paper they should have steamrollered across Ukraine, taken Kiev and arrived at the Polish border in days while the impotent West looked on helplessly. Instead, they failed to take Kiev and retreated, much the same with Kharkiv and Kherson was liberated. They have managed to secure a strip of Eastern Ukraine which is mostly devastated, and the towns and cities that they have taken like Mariupol for example, they have destroyed, which will cost billions of dollars to rebuild. I'm not a military man or even an armchair general, but Putin's 'Special Military Operation' doesn't strike me as a runaway success. 
   

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Exactly. He more than likely thought he could send troops into Ukraine and they would take the whole country in a week or two.
He has made a momentous mistake, because the whole world now knows that other than their nukes, Russia are no great military force at all.
The world believed otherwise before Ukraine.
If he doesnt got out of this with something tangible to show for it, I think he is a dead man walking.
That would be a good thing, because Russia as a country isnt our enemy, but Putin definitely is.
If he had dreams or ambitions to carry on after Ukraine and recreate the old USSR, he must now realise that there is no way thats going to happen. Unless he really is clinically insane.
If he and his regime was gone and hopefully replaced by something less volatile, the Western world could learn by its previous mistake and welcome them into the civilised world.
It all rests on Trump though. If he pulls the plug on weapons and funding then Ukraine wont have a hope.

[ronnyd]

“Most people in the UK are, I believe, averse to the notion of bombs and death”

Haha. I suspect that applies to “ most people” not just those in the UK.

The only people not averse are the war czars but then they don’t lead from the front but from bombshelters.

As Roger Waters wrote, "We play the game with the bravery of being out of range".

[Nick W]

If he and his regime was gone and hopefully replaced by something less volatile, the Western world could learn by its previous mistake and welcome them into the civilised world.
It all rests on Trump though. If he pulls the plug on weapons and funding then Ukraine wont have a hope.

Unfortunately, Trump is a demented fool, supported by billionaires operating out of their limited expertise who are fronted by a drug addict who believes his own press.


Behind them are a bunch of religious crazies, which is never a good basis for a government.


All of them are operating on the principle of break everything and scoop up whatever is left of any value. What's really, utterly unfathomable here is that it's their stuff they're breaking. Who would do that [size=78%]? [/size]


Nor should we underestimate Trump's deal making ability - blunder about making threats while promising them whatever they asked for, bend over a table to be oppsed and give them the table as a souvenir.


Giving into Putin would be appeasement for the 21st century. And look how much badly peace for our time affected everyone in the latter two-thirds of the 20th.

[TheBoy]

Yeah, just a nobody. 

Pretty much.  Loves himself a bit, doesn't he.  And, as I said previously, he is purposely saying things to be controversial - I wonder if he has monetisation enabled on his gayTube channel....   ...just saying

[Raeturbo]

Doesn’t matter who started it and why now, Putin has shown his hand and it’s a weak one but he is a dangerous, corrupt, foolish liar who wants the USSR to exist again, he must be stopped and shown the error of his ways or we face far more shit Stirling, cable cutting, hidden bombs, poisoning, he will stoop to anything to keep his dream alive, this guy must be stopped and soon, the longer it goes on the worse it will become.

[Migalot]

What military capabilities are those then? 

After three years of invading his much smaller neighbour, Putin's mighty war machine has been bogged down in First World War style trench warfare where they've been grinding forward with incremental gains.  His troops have sustained massive casualties due to the medieval tactics they've used, he's had to resort to conscripting from prisons, faced a very public mutiny and the shortage of armoured vehicles is such that they ferry troops to the front in Ladas, which are often picked off by drones.  He was humiliated when the Ukrainians sank his flagship missile cruiser Moskva and what's left of the Black Sea fleet has largely withdrawn from Sevastopol to the far side of the Black Sea at Novorossiysk, where they are out of range of Ukrainian missiles. Apart from being used as long range missile launch pads, where the targets are usually civilian in nature, the Black Sea fleet is no longer much of a threat.

Where was the 'blitzkrieg'? On paper they should have steamrollered across Ukraine, taken Kiev and arrived at the Polish border in days while the impotent West looked on helplessly. Instead, they failed to take Kiev and retreated, much the same with Kharkiv and Kherson was liberated. They have managed to secure a strip of Eastern Ukraine which is mostly devastated, and the towns and cities that they have taken like Mariupol for example, they have destroyed, which will cost billions of dollars to rebuild. I'm not a military man or even an armchair general, but Putin's 'Special Military Operation' doesn't strike me as a runaway success. 
 

Fibre-optic drones, Oreshnik and Avangard hypersonic missiles, the air-launched Kinzhal glide missile, S-400 Triumph air defence system, Uran-9 unmanned ground vehicle, Su-57 and Su-35 advanced fighters etc, etc.

As for the rest of your post: the Russian army has gained thousands of volunteers, they do not conscript from prisons and do not face a very public mutiny or shortage of armoured vehicles. At the start, Russia had no intention of capturing Kiev. The military adventure was merely a show (as insufficient troops were deployed) to get Ukraine to the negotiating table  it worked as a peace agreement was initialed, though it was later scuppered by Johnson. It's too easy to talk of a tiny country fighting by far greater opponent. The truth is that Russia has been fighting NATO. Ukraine has been a proxy.

I follow folks like Larry Johnson (ex-CIA officer), Colonel Douglas Macgregor (US army ret'd and former US government official), Ray McGovern (ex-CIA analyst), Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson (former chief of staff to United States Secretary of State Colin Powell), Karen Kwiatkowski (retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel whose assignments included duties as a Pentagon desk officer. They are all US patriots, but determined to counter the MSM narrative. Also worth following is Alastair Crooke CMG (ex-MI6 and former British diplomat). That's where I get the news, NOT the BBC, ITV, Sky etc.

[LC0112G]

Fibre-optic drones, Oreshnik and Avangard hypersonic missiles, the air-launched Kinzhal glide missile, S-400 Triumph air defence system, Uran-9 unmanned ground vehicle, Su-57 and Su-35 advanced fighters etc, etc.

At the start of the war, Ukraine had no defence against any of those items - their forces were at least 30 years out of date. And worse they were 30 years out of date Russian equipment which is 10 years behind western tech anyway. They are now, slowly (too slowly IMHO) being equipped with (basically) 10 year old western fighters, tanks, missile defense systems etc and that has neutralised the majority of these threats. If they'd had this more modern stuff on day one, then we wouldn't be where we are now.

As for the rest of your post: the Russian army has gained thousands of volunteers, they do not conscript from prisons

False

At the start, Russia had no intention of capturing Kiev.

I'll call that false as well. No point in capturing Hostomol airport unless you intend to use it as an airborne bridgehead, supporting rolling tanks down from Belarus into Kiev. I believe they thought they could capture Kiev in 3 days, and after that the whole country would fall within a few weeks. When that didn't work, they had little option but to pull out the way they'd come in.

The truth is that Russia has been fighting NATO. Ukraine has been a proxy.

You can make the argument that they're fighting against NATO tech now, three years on, but not during the first days, weeks, months. They were on their own then.