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[Varche]

It all seemed a bit surreal watching the Americans trying to sort out there banks. $700B was it?

Now the same thing has happened in Britain. No voting on it. I can't help feeling that it would be nice to see a few bankers feel a bit of pain rather than spread it onto Joe Public. I bet the bankers will still all get their fabulous bonuses and pats on backs for doing a great job. Any other industry and they would just be allowed to go to the wall.

Why didn't the government insist that trading in all bank shares be suspended until the announcement came out?

What do you feel about it?

varche

[sir moanalot]

ok good  :-/
ps had a great time in pollensa -the weather was brill apart from the friday when we were leaving, cheers for the in regards tony.

[jereboam]

Where does all this "money" for rescues come from?  What is it?  Does the government just go away and print some more, or are there warehouses full of loot that they can dip into?

And what's backing it?  We all know it isn't gold.  A year or so back, the papers were telling us that the housing market in the UK was worth £4 trillion.  This was obviously nonsense, because there wasn't anyone to buy it.  Is our £50bn based on this sort of fantasy or what?

[Banjax]

Where does all this "money" for rescues come from?  What is it?  Does the government just go away and print some more, or are there warehouses full of loot that they can dip into?

And what's backing it?  We all know it isn't gold.  A year or so back, the papers were telling us that the housing market in the UK was worth £4 trillion.  This was obviously nonsense, because there wasn't anyone to buy it.  Is our £50bn based on this sort of fantasy or what?

Its actually not a £50bn bail out - its £500bn!!!!
The money comes from us as taxpayers, and will just be added to the national debt which means we will have to be taxed more if we want the same services - so the money does exist - its ours - now we're giving the banks money so that they can lend us that money and charge us interest!!!!

[Jay w]

given what Banjaxx has just said i would like to see the following happen until such time as the debt is repaid.

Shareholders in the bank receiving a smaller dividend and the remainder of that div then going into the repayments, after all these banks are being supported by UK PLC

For whatever reason we are in the situation we are in, however this isn't something we asked for, by that i mean each and every one of us......

I'm not saying the goverment perpetuated this but they must have seen it coming a mile off, there must have been more that could have been done 18 months ago when borrowing was still rife and forecasters were warning of the impending doom, you cannot say that we were at the hands of the financal markets back then?
Now the insitutions who ignored the warning signs have gone to the government cap in hand and us, the tax payer has now got to bail them out.

Now there is an argument that says we, the tax payer, have spent that money, but not all of it was our doing and not all of us have failed to keep up payments on things we have bought (please not i am generalising here) but yet we will be left with this legacy for a long while  


I only hope this changes the way people see money, if it means we return to a more prudent (i rather hate that word) savings based society then this pain may have been a pain worth suffering, however if we don't learn from it the next time it could be worse  

i could rant on about this for hours as it is something i feel very strongly about, we all have homes, familys and commitments and this has only added more strain to that

[Mr Skrunts]

Where does all this "money" for rescues come from?  What is it?  Does the government just go away and print some more, or are there warehouses full of loot that they can dip into?

And what's backing it?  We all know it isn't gold.  A year or so back, the papers were telling us that the housing market in the UK was worth £4 trillion.  This was obviously nonsense, because there wasn't anyone to buy it.  Is our £50bn based on this sort of fantasy or what?

Its actually not a £50bn bail out - its £500bn!!!!
The money comes from us as taxpayers, and will just be added to the national debt which means we will have to be taxed more if we want the same services - so the money does exist - its ours - now we're giving the banks money so that they can lend us that money and charge us interest!!!!

Does that make them loan Shark's then?

[Banjax]

given what Banjaxx has just said i would like to see the following happen until such time as the debt is repaid.

Shareholders in the bank receiving a smaller dividend and the remainder of that div then going into the repayments, after all these banks are being supported by UK PLC

For whatever reason we are in the situation we are in, however this isn't something we asked for, by that i mean each and every one of us......

I'm not saying the goverment perpetuated this but they must have seen it coming a mile off, there must have been more that could have been done 18 months ago when borrowing was still rife and forecasters were warning of the impending doom, you cannot say that we were at the hands of the financal markets back then?
Now the insitutions who ignored the warning signs have gone to the government cap in hand and us, the tax payer has now got to bail them out.

Now there is an argument that says we, the tax payer, have spent that money, but not all of it was our doing and not all of us have failed to keep up payments on things we have bought (please not i am generalising here) but yet we will be left with this legacy for a long while  


I only hope this changes the way people see money, if it means we return to a more prudent (i rather hate that word) savings based society then this pain may have been a pain worth suffering, however if we don't learn from it the next time it could be worse  

i could rant on about this for hours as it is something i feel very strongly about, we all have homes, familys and commitments and this has only added more strain to that

unfortunately it used to be that a bank was a place that lent you money only if you could prove you didn't need it! nowadays (or until recently) you couldnt go into a branch without them trying to foist a credit card on you or get you to move your mortgage -you couldnt open your door for loan offers - seems obvious now that there was way too much debt swilling around and banks were actively chasing you to put you in debt!
i think we should go back to a simpler system - regulate mortgages so that only genuine building societies, and not banks can offer mortgages (although i dont think theres any building societies left) the free for all with banks fighting each other to dole out mortagages was the main reason for the house price bubble - it was always a bubble - and when they get too big - they pop - which is fine unless you're a bank with more debt tied up in house prices than all the assets you own!!

i think we'll see a period of "prudence" as you say - but it wont last - a year or two from now the banks will be charging off again throwing out credit left right and centre - its an economy based on greed - and there will always BE greed  

[Banjax]

Where does all this "money" for rescues come from?  What is it?  Does the government just go away and print some more, or are there warehouses full of loot that they can dip into?

And what's backing it?  We all know it isn't gold.  A year or so back, the papers were telling us that the housing market in the UK was worth £4 trillion.  This was obviously nonsense, because there wasn't anyone to buy it.  Is our £50bn based on this sort of fantasy or what?

Its actually not a £50bn bail out - its £500bn!!!!
The money comes from us as taxpayers, and will just be added to the national debt which means we will have to be taxed more if we want the same services - so the money does exist - its ours - now we're giving the banks money so that they can lend us that money and charge us interest!!!!

Does that make them loan Shark's then?

they always were Skruntie - they just had nicer offices  

[Jay w]

given what Banjaxx has just said i would like to see the following happen until such time as the debt is repaid.

Shareholders in the bank receiving a smaller dividend and the remainder of that div then going into the repayments, after all these banks are being supported by UK PLC

For whatever reason we are in the situation we are in, however this isn't something we asked for, by that i mean each and every one of us......

I'm not saying the goverment perpetuated this but they must have seen it coming a mile off, there must have been more that could have been done 18 months ago when borrowing was still rife and forecasters were warning of the impending doom, you cannot say that we were at the hands of the financal markets back then?
Now the insitutions who ignored the warning signs have gone to the government cap in hand and us, the tax payer has now got to bail them out.

Now there is an argument that says we, the tax payer, have spent that money, but not all of it was our doing and not all of us have failed to keep up payments on things we have bought (please not i am generalising here) but yet we will be left with this legacy for a long while  


I only hope this changes the way people see money, if it means we return to a more prudent (i rather hate that word) savings based society then this pain may have been a pain worth suffering, however if we don't learn from it the next time it could be worse  

i could rant on about this for hours as it is something i feel very strongly about, we all have homes, familys and commitments and this has only added more strain to that

unfortunately it used to be that a bank was a place that lent you money only if you could prove you didn't need it! nowadays (or until recently) you couldnt go into a branch without them trying to foist a credit card on you or get you to move your mortgage -you couldnt open your door for loan offers - seems obvious now that there was way too much debt swilling around and banks were actively chasing you to put you in debt!
i think we should go back to a simpler system - regulate mortgages so that only genuine building societies, and not banks can offer mortgages (although i dont think theres any building societies left) the free for all with banks fighting each other to dole out mortagages was the main reason for the house price bubble - it was always a bubble - and when they get too big - they pop - which is fine unless you're a bank with more debt tied up in house prices than all the assets you own!!

i think we'll see a period of "prudence" as you say - but it wont last - a year or two from now the banks will be charging off again throwing out credit left right and centre - its an economy based on greed - and there will always BE greed  

its times like this when 'old fashioned living and values' appear to be a better option.

its a shame that once the 'storm' is over normal service will be resumed....

Do you really reckon we will be normal service within 1-2 years?   i was thinking more 5 - 10 given that we as indiviuals have a huge debt mountain to climb and some of us will have to wait for property to return to a positive equity balance

[Gaffers]

Where does all this "money" for rescues come from?  What is it?  Does the government just go away and print some more, or are there warehouses full of loot that they can dip into?

And what's backing it?  We all know it isn't gold.  A year or so back, the papers were telling us that the housing market in the UK was worth £4 trillion.  This was obviously nonsense, because there wasn't anyone to buy it.  Is our £50bn based on this sort of fantasy or what?

Its actually not a £50bn bail out - its £500bn!!!!
The money comes from us as taxpayers, and will just be added to the national debt which means we will have to be taxed more if we want the same services - so the money does exist - its ours - now we're giving the banks money so that they can lend us that money and charge us interest!!!!

Its good to hear that we can bail out fatcat bankers when they are greedy with a figure eight times that of the defence budget while Pte Snooks gets paid a pitance risking his life with the bare minimum of kit in sh!tholes around the world.

Enjoy your cigars and brandy you f****** a********!!!  

[Kevin Wood]

its times like this when 'old fashioned living and values' appear to be a better option.

True. Yet, more than just ignoring this looming elephant in the room, Gordon Brown has fuelled it, by simultaneously promising that the days of "boom and bust" are over and destroying any incentive for people to save, inherit or participate in normal family life.

its a shame that once the 'storm' is over normal service will be resumed....

Yep. Banks, etc. will carry on freshly reassured that the taxpayer will provide a safety net for them if they get carried away.  

Kevin

[albitz]

A fella lecturing on a course at Bloomberg in the city on Monday,stated with some confidence that the markets will bottom out this week and then start climbing until christmas.
they will then fall again in January (but not to current levels) before making a full recovery.
dont know how he knows this,but hope he is right.  :-/
Personally,I think the interest rate cut should have been much bigger and sooner.
edit; regarding bankers bonuses,these are not usually paid in cash,normally a large proportion of the bonus will be paid in stock options,so in present circunstances their bonuses are disappearing down the toilet with share prices.

[waspy]

I don't understand all this crap & i have intention of doing so. All i know is someones gotten rich outa this whilst us (the tax payer) have gotten poorer. The ones that have gotten rich should be made to pay it back for their cock ups.
Yet again we have to pay for someone elses mess. The rich get richer whilst the hard working Joe gets screwed.

[Jay w]

A fella lecturing on a course at Bloomberg in the city on Monday,stated with some confidence that the markets will bottom out this week and then start climbing until christmas.
they will then fall again in January (but not to current levels) before making a full recovery.
dont know how he knows this,but hope he is right.  :-/
Personally,I think the interest rate cut should have been much bigger and sooner.
edit; regarding bankers bonuses,these are not usually paid in cash,normally a large proportion of the bonus will be paid in stock options,so in present circunstances their bonuses are disappearing down the toilet with share prices.

i can't find the link currently but Lehman brothers had a director who drew $300 million in the last year prior to it going bang!!!!  

i really hope this doesn't happen given the amount of money we have just pumped into the banking system

[Marks DTM Calib]

Lol....dont you just love the poor press reporting!

1) The money comes from the sale of government bonds (gilts) and this is the same way this useless bunch of scum bags have been over funding inefficient public sector setups since they came into power (selling bonds).

2) The money is a loan to the banks and must be paid back.....with interest.... so we do stand to make a few quid out of it! (its the only way I can see them reducing the national debt at the moment!)

3) One of the terms of this financing (it is a financing package and not free cash) is a restriction on pay and bonuses plus smaller dividends to existing sharholders!

This is being done to inject some liquidity in the market because at the moment none of the banks ar lending each other money......and this affects more than just mortgages as it has a knock on effect in manufacturing, development.....the bloody lot!