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[Markjay]

Firstly, IE7 is here to stay, it’s the gospel from Microsoft and this is what the mainstream market will standardise around. Eventually all websites will support IE7 or die… it was exactly the same when IE6 replaced IE5 a few years ago.

Secondly, over time the product will have various Service Packs and updates and will work better.

Thirdly, it will be bundled with Vista – which will be pre-installed on practically every desktop PC sold on the planet – so again, it is here to stay and we better all get used to it…  

[theolodian]

Firstly, IE7 is here to stay, it’s the gospel from Microsoft and this is what the mainstream market will standardise around. Eventually all websites will support IE7 or die… it was exactly the same when IE6 replaced IE5 a few years ago.

Sectional, over time the product will have various Service Packs and updates and will work better.

Thirdly, it will be bundled with Vista – which will be pre-installed on practically every desktop PC sold on the planet – so again, it is here to stay and we better all get used to it…  

Sorry, I should have been clearer.  I am advising against installing it at this time, until at least the first major round of updates.  I do expect to use it once they get it up to at least the normal standard of Microsoft reliability  

[CaptainZok]

You had any luck with that firefox download yet Theo?

[theolodian]

You had any luck with that firefox download yet Theo?

Nope, gonna fire up Mac.  Got firmware update to download for new video toy as well, not gonna risk that on IE7.

[CaptainZok]

Good idea, don't want to break your xmas prezzie with a corrupt download.

[Martin_1962]

Well I have told XP to not download it yet

[Del Boy]

It's strange, some people seem to have problems with it & some don't.
I've had it since beta (now full) & not had a problem. I use Firefox though 'cos it's faster  
Tried WMP11 beta & had all kind of probs & got rid, installed full version last week & works fine....

Lol Bo Bo have done exactly the same

[Paul M]

I have told XP not to download it and not to notify me again. No doubt it will pop it's ugly ass up again in the near future. Besides I think you need to have "Windows Genuine (dis)Advantage" installed which I don't and never will as it offers absolutely no advantage to me.

Firefox 2.0 is working just fine for me, I see no need to add yet more M$ junk onto my PC. I'll be staying away from Vista too as I'm really fed up with M$'s intrusive anti-piracy measures these days, which do absolutely nothing to reduce piracy while causing no end of problems for paying customers.

[supermop]

Firstly, IE7 is here to stay, it’s the gospel from Microsoft and this is what the mainstream market will standardise around. Eventually all websites will support IE7 or die… it was exactly the same when IE6 replaced IE5 a few years ago.

Secondly, over time the product will have various Service Packs and updates and will work better.

Thirdly, it will be bundled with Vista – which will be pre-installed on practically every desktop PC sold on the planet – so again, it is here to stay and we better all get used to it…  

That doesnt change the fact that its rubbish.

[Martin_1962]

I have told XP not to download it and not to notify me again. No doubt it will pop it's ugly ass up again in the near future. Besides I think you need to have "Windows Genuine (dis)Advantage" installed which I don't and never will as it offers absolutely no advantage to me.

Firefox 2.0 is working just fine for me, I see no need to add yet more M$ junk onto my PC. I'll be staying away from Vista too as I'm really fed up with M$'s intrusive anti-piracy measures these days, which do absolutely nothing to reduce piracy while causing no end of problems for paying customers.

I have removed WGA Spyware at home and prevented installing at work - both PCs have nagged for IE7

[TheBoy]

I have told XP not to download it and not to notify me again. No doubt it will pop it's ugly ass up again in the near future. Besides I think you need to have "Windows Genuine (dis)Advantage" installed which I don't and never will as it offers absolutely no advantage to me.

Firefox 2.0 is working just fine for me, I see no need to add yet more M$ junk onto my PC. I'll be staying away from Vista too as I'm really fed up with M$'s intrusive anti-piracy measures these days, which do absolutely nothing to reduce piracy while causing no end of problems for paying customers.

Over Windows Advantage, I agree with MS.  I see a lot of PCs, and an awful lot fail WGA. When I ask owner for COA, they say a friend installed, or they download XP from net.  WGA does not impede a genuine owner, and we've checked the packets that are set back to MS, and don't believe they are large enough to collect personal info (encrypted so can't see whats in them).

MS developed the software, and have a right to charge for it.  As a consumer, we (almost) have a choice - there is always Linux (though freebies there are diminishing into commercial distros).

[Paul M]

They do have a right to charge for their software, but IMO their crappy protection methods do little more than harass paying customers. The people who are quite happy to pirate their copy of XP will simply download the widely available cracks for WGA. You don't seriously believe a warning about Windows being "non-genuine" will make someone who has downloaded XP from bit torrent or similar rush out and pay £200 for a genuine copy do you?

And false positives do occur. Yes they can be rectified but I'm not prepared to find out whether my system will pass WGA and spend the effort fixing it if it doesn't. It offers absolutely no advantage to me, the customer, so I refuse to have it on my system.

These tactics remind me of some of the pathetic efforts made by record labels to stop people ripping music CDs. So you, as a genuine paying customer, get a defective CD that causes problems with certain CD players or PCs, and the music is still all over bit torrent sites  as soon as it hits the stores. You're actually better off downloading a pirated version as it's been stripped of the crap that they put on in a futile effort to stop ripping.

BTW I seldom use Windows these days where I can avoid it, but Microsoft's monopoly position means it's actually very difficult to avoid Windows completely - there is so much software that is Windows only. Yes there are work arounds for some issues but other than running a Windows VM there are none that solve all the issues. Even the VM isn't 100% effective, some unusual scenarios require a normal Windows install.

[TheBoy]

I have never seen a false positive with WPA or WGA.  It is always where the software hasn't been activated, and is outside of its activation period. Of course its possible someone has a licence, but has run a crack for whatever reason, but this should be an unlikely scenario.  And most people capable of installing XP should know better.

The cracks do not effectively work with WGA, most of them just hide the prompts.

It plays havoc if you are using imaging technology to deploy multiple identical machines, but in that case you should be looking at corporate versions available with Open Licencing, which handle it slighty differently (as most non legal XP users will know - no activation after install, but if you use one of the 2 well know keys, the service packs will detect this).

MS have to do something to prevent piracy, WPA/WGA is a reasonable start.

[theolodian]

Wahey!  Downloaded FF2 and the latest firmware for my video toy with the Mac, and both installed perfectly!  Now I'll start seeing how FF2 does.

[Paul M]

I have never seen a false positive with WPA or WGA.  It is always where the software hasn't been activated, and is outside of its activation period. Of course its possible someone has a licence, but has run a crack for whatever reason, but this should be an unlikely scenario.  And most people capable of installing XP should know better.

I have heard of false positives, although I'm unsure of the details such as whether the correct key was used etc.

Funnily enough I bought a new 160Gb HD for my Dell laptop, then discovered that the OS installation CD that came with it is gubbed (shows a general protection fault a few seconds after booting). Brilliant! Couldn't find a Dell OEM installation CD for download so I hastily downloaded a standard WinXP SP2 ISO using my Linux desktop - oh the irony lol, and installed with that. But of course it wouldn't accept my OEM CD Key so a quick search of google groups (usenet archives) came up with more keys than you could ever wish for. First one worked fine. A few days later I managed to get a hold of a Dell OEM CD which did work OK so I started again and reinstalled "legitimately". Unfortunately it was only an SP1 CD so I had to spend ages getting SP2 and all the subsequent updates. Funnily enough it didn't even ask for my CD Key this time, apparently this is normal for Dell systems, maybe it can read something from the BIOS or whatever. Didn't have to activate either, and of course WGA isn't installed cos I won't allow it to be installed.

The cracks do not effectively work with WGA, most of them just hide the prompts.

It plays havoc if you are using imaging technology to deploy multiple identical machines, but in that case you should be looking at corporate versions available with Open Licencing, which handle it slighty differently (as most non legal XP users will know - no activation after install, but if you use one of the 2 well know keys, the service packs will detect this).

Couldn't tell you anything about the cracks, never seen any of em. CD Keys can be changed easily enough, there are a few workarounds that I've heard of (the classic one being to change a registry key to make windows become "unactivated", then use the activation wizard to change the key). So you then just go onto google groups and find a key that works with SP2! Yet another useless "solution" to the piracy problem.

MS have to do something to prevent piracy, WPA/WGA is a reasonable start.

But the guilty until proved innocent approach is not something I want to have any part of. If I have paid £200 for XP Pro (or more likely about £80-£100 for an OEM version bundled with the PC) then I do not see why I should have to repeatedly contact M$ to let them check that I've paid for the software. No other mainstream vendor does it, and they all have piracy problems.

It's akin to the government saying we have to do something to tackle the problem of drivers breaking the speed limit, so from next year every car will have a GPS device that calls home to your nearest police station to check you haven't broken any speed limits.

Both are illegal, but I don't agree with the principal of some "higher authority" periodically checking my property to ensure I'm adhering to their rules.