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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Actually Lizzie £196 Billion sounds a lot less than .......take a deep breath Optimist...One hundred and ninety six thousand million pounds.....sounds much more impressive ...don't you think.

You aren't a politician by any chance Optimist?

Nope.....too honest ::)for that lizzie....but I do take an interest in political matters..... Anthony Eden popped up in one of your threads recently.

Did you know that John Prescott served him food and drink......when he was a waiter on a cruise ship in the Fifties.....young good looking chap was Prezza in those days.....how times change.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Actually Lizzie £196 Billion sounds a lot less than .......take a deep breath Optimist...One hundred and ninety six thousand million pounds.....sounds much more impressive ...don't you think.

You aren't a politician by any chance Optimist?

Nope.....too honest ::)for that lizzie....but I do take an interest in political matters..... Anthony Eden popped up in one of your threads recently.

Did you know that John Prescott served him food and drink......when he was a waiter on a cruise ship in the Fifties.....young good looking chap was Prezza in those days.....how times change.

No I was not aware of that fact, so thanks for that Optimist.  It is good to link historical/political figures up in my research!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Of course, he needs to reduce the cost of living some how as since the daft interest rate cut, the pound has slid meaning the price of imported goods, holidays and oil has gone up....

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Of course, he needs to reduce the cost of living some how as since the daft interest rate cut, the pound has slid meaning the price of imported goods, holidays and oil has gone up....

.........Marks will probably continue now to go up due to loss of faith in the £ and the British economy!!

I  am now waiting for the Stock Exchange reactions tomorrow morning!

[Marks DTM Calib]

When interest rates drop....so do currencies.

You dont keep money in countries where the return is poor.

[Bandit127]

I  am now waiting for the Stock Exchange reactions tomorrow morning!

Lizzie - are you expecting another 10% increase? Or a bit of profit taking off the back of today's gains?

[Marks DTM Calib]

Possibly a bit of a rally on the high street shares....no change on banking (maybe a slight drop)....manufacturing (what is left) might benefit from the weak pound for exports but, this might be offset by the higher cost of the raw materials.

So...no major change I would suspect all in.

[STMO123]

If there's one thing I wont do it's predict what the markets will do. Not even from one hour to the next.
Anyone who thinks they can do it should have a go at short selling, you can make a fortune very quickly.
Or end up minus your shirt.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

If there's one thing I wont do it's predict what the markets will do. Not even from one hour to the next.
Anyone who thinks they can do it should have a go at short selling, you can make a fortune very quickly.
Or end up minus your shirt.

Yes indeed STMO123, as the markets I have looked at seemed to have rallied after both the US Citibank move, and the British Government's Darling Pre-Budget announcement this afternoon.  

But tomorrow is another day, and who knows what the speculators and City (Stock Exchange / Wall Street / Hang Seng / etc ) will do once they wake up to the situation of the British Government borrowing £196 bn?

Panic, stick, invest, or move their trillions of investments elsewhere.......?   Who knows what goes on in the minds of the world's facinating money men!!!

[markfree]

I  am now waiting for the Stock Exchange reactions tomorrow morning!  

FTSE 100 over 300 points up on the day - rocketed after 3pm - guessing thats when Alistair made his announcements -city seem to like it - see what happens tomorrow.

[LaserLance]

PS Before anyone corrects me I know £3 billionis going to be made available for public transport development, extra motorway building and house development This is peanuts remember the motorist pays to the chancellor £16 billion in taxs a year so looks like the poor old motorist is gonna  get hammered again,and we still got the olympics to pay for as well , the bottom line is we're in the brown(no pun intended) and smelly stuff up to our necks and the only people to get us out of it is the taxpayer ,which means you ,me and the rest of the poor saps who reside in this green and not so pleasant land  

[cem_devecioglu]

That is how much the current Government and Alistair Darling is to borrow up to 2010 to keep our Country afloat!!!

Just to remind us all it is:

[size=24]£118 BILLION[/size]

I am now speechless!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Go, for God's sake and the rest of us, GO!!

EDIT:  I am still speechless after realising that the figure is as now shown above, not £180 Billion!   But each one of us will still "owe" as a citizen of the UK £3,000 EACH!!!

What would you have him do? Nothing, while we watch the inevitable wave of redundancies see ordinary families suffer?

No party politics here, I sincerely hope what he has done will mitigate some of it. Because it is ordinary people that cop the worst of it in times like this.

No, I don't expect anyone at the head of the Government to do nothing, but this is a tremendous gamble that commits this country, you, me and everyone else, to high taxes to pay it all back which will not  be accomplished until at least 2015.

We have all been complaining about high costs due to fuel taxation, yet this budget will see an increase on this tax, along with higher NI contributions, higher taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, etc, etc.  To knock off 2.5% on VAT does nothing to encourage people to spend, as lower fuel taxes would have done.

If this Government hadn't run the larder bare we would be in a better position now, although yes it would still have been very difficult!  This record rate of borrowing is "the highest since records began in modern times".  

If your business is struggling in the red it is no good chucking money at it without resolving the fundamental problems of that companies trading.  The country is like that company, which requires new ideas and incentives like massive public transport development and council house building, to provide jobs* and true income, not politicians borrowing more and more money to manipulate the situation, juggling the figues, without dealing with the fundamental problem. Running this country is costing too much in relation to how much it earns.  That is simple accountancy and needs now strong fiscal management of the highest order.  Not just "buying" for time.

As for the USA and it's bail out figures they cannot be compared to ours as their economy involves 300 million people against our 61 million, and they have the World's largest economy measured in many Trillions  of dollars, with ours fast slipping from forth place!

My opinion yes, but Labour Governments are historically renowned for over spending and over borrowing, so they ARE doing it all over again, which last time in 1979 Maggie Thatcher had to sort out!

*PS Before anyone corrects me I know £3 billion is going to be made available for public transport development, extra motorway building and house development!  Sorry but that is peanuts, as alone a high speed rail line from London to the North that could provide jobs in the construction, but importantly jobs to the North, with the need for more housing, will alone require at least £2 billion to build!

Lizzie,

You cant solve these problems like a company..The corresponding

parameters are very complicated ..

Main parameters :

A govt must be social ( in theory)

A govt must be democratic (in theory)

A govt must collect taxes ( in the name of social expenses)

A govt must keep the budget tight (like a company)

A govt must keep the balances between production and consumption

A govt must keep the profits of the main capital and political  powers

A govt must take votes


As you see all these are contradictory..


And the resultant shift or movement of  govt management will be

sum of those vectors and of which is also time dependant..

    Now, IMHO  the amount you are talking compared to the production

and consumption of UK is nothing..

   From a macro point of view, the important point is where and how

the money flow..What are the tap points.. And where all these money

flow accumulates..Because these all makes up the system itself ,

and the problem..

    And sorry for that, but govts only play their roles in the limit of

total systems permission..

[Simon_Omega]

In a nutshell, the government borrows £118billion and injects it into the economy now.
I never thought I would say it but, it appears that Gordon and his bunch of morons appear to have at least understood the problem and have taken a sensible approach to remedying it.

i like that  - and your value avatar made me chuckle too - every little helps!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Quote fro CEM's reply:

"Lizzie,

You cant solve these problems like a company"



But that is exactly were this Labour Government of ours Cem have got it wrong.........the British economy should be run as a business!!

Great Britain Limited should still be run under the principles of any successful business.  Your income must cover your out goings, with any profit ploughed back into the business to reward the shareholders, the citizens of Great Britain.

It is in very simplistic form I know (so please no accountants pick too many holes in this!!) but in my experience of high level business requirements the GB Balance Sheet should look something like  this although please excuse the abreviated layout as if laid out fully would be far more complicated:
                                                               £
Income:
                        Taxes & Revenues            X
              Income from Investments           X
                                           Loans           X
Gross Income                                          X

Operating Costs
NHS                                                        Y
Defence                                                  Y
Education                                                Y
Social & Welfare                                      Y
All Other Departments                              Y
Civil Service Salaries                               Y

Fixed Costs
Rent for Government Establishments         Y
Maintenance Costs                                   Y
Running Costs                                         Y

Liabilities                                      
Loan Repayments & Interest                     Y

Total Costs                                       Y

Total Loss / Profit
    (Gross Income X minus Total Costs Y)    Zero
 as it should balance given the "Loans"
entered into the "Income"

The way the Labour Government has run GB Limited is historically TYPICAL of all Socialist governments;  they overspend and thus over tax.  The current Government are spending more than GB Ltd., is earning so having to borrow increasingly to "Balance the Books" in the 'Top Line' of the Balance Sheet to make the 'Bottom line' Balance.

GB Ltd., now required £196 Billion in loans over the next two years to "Balanace the Books"!!!

This is no way to run the business, even allowing for all the considerations for social and welfare requirements of any Government.  But. as I have frequently stated, socialist governments forget that requirement and just continuing to borrow to fund their habits!!   The great philospher economist, F.A. Hayek, warned of this very issue and the value of the "free market".  I would advise anyone interested to read his book:  Hayek, F.A. (1944) The Road to SerfdomLondon: Routledge .  

My opinion of course, so in fairness form your judgements taking into account a countary view by the economist John Maynard Keynes  

[cem_devecioglu]

Quote fro CEM's reply:

"Lizzie,

You cant solve these problems like a company"



But that is exactly were this Labour Government of ours Cem have got it wrong.........the British economy should be run as a business!!

Great Britain Limited should still be run under the principles of any successful business.  Your income must cover your out goings, with any profit ploughed back into the business to reward the shareholders, the citizens of Great Britain.

It is in very simplistic form I know (so please no accountants pick too many holes in this!!) but in my experience of high level business requirements the GB Balance Sheet should look something like  this although please excuse the abreviated layout as if laid out fully would be far more complicated:
                                                               £
Income:
                        Taxes & Revenues            X
              Income from Investments           X
                                           Loans           X
Gross Income                                          X

Operating Costs
NHS                                                        Y
Defence                                                  Y
Education                                                Y
Social & Welfare                                      Y
All Other Departments                              Y
Civil Service Salaries                               Y

Fixed Costs
Rent for Government Establishments         Y
Maintenance Costs                                   Y
Running Costs                                         Y

Liabilities                                      
Loan Repayments & Interest                     Y

Total Costs                                       Y

Total Loss / Profit
    (Gross Income X minus Total Costs Y)    Zero
 as it should balance given the "Loans"
entered into the "Income"

The way the Labour Government has run GB Limited is historically TYPICAL of all Socialist governments;  they overspend and thus over tax.  The current Government are spending more than GB Ltd., is earning so having to borrow increasingly to "Balance the Books" in the 'Top Line' of the Balance Sheet to make the 'Bottom line' Balance.

GB Ltd., now required £196 Billion in loans over the next two years to "Balanace the Books"!!!

This is no way to run the business, even allowing for all the considerations for social and welfare requirements of any Government.  But. as I have frequently stated, socialist governments forget that requirement and just continuing to borrow to fund their habits!!   The great philospher economist, F.A. Hayek, warned of this very issue and the value of the "free market".  I would advise anyone interested to read his book:  Hayek, F.A. (1944) The Road to SerfdomLondon: Routledge .  

My opinion of course, so in fairness form your judgements taking into account a countary view by the economist John Maynard Keynes  

Lizzie,

thanks for  the long writing..What you write is true..But thats the truth

of books .. Reality is a bit different for many countries.. And

especially if you are a developing country you need more fuel to grow

up.. And its really a political decision arena how the money

is spend and it purely depends on governors political views..

     Also I must note that IMHO, most governments dont have enough

freedom against the underlying system..

    And besides humans are not a simple subject of debit ,credit or

loans..They have their needs..And in case of necessity govts must be

capable of doing operations which breaks up the balance..(dont mean

their every move is correct)