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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Last Thursday Damian Green MP for Ashford and Shadow Cabinet Minister for Immigration was arrested. This was apparently as a consequence of Damian Green MP, alledgedly, receiving from a 26 year old civil servant the content of government papers and making the content public.


Further to the Damian Green MP affair over his arrest I have just read in The Daily Telegraph No. 47,741for Saturday 29th November 2008, on page 6 an article by Deputy Political Editor, Robert Winnett.  In it he quotes two highly thought provoking statements.  

One given by Michael Howard, former leader of the Conservative Party and a Home Secretary stated "This is the sort of thing that led to the start of the Civil War when Charles I went to Parliament".  8-) 8-) 

Even more interesting is the other statement from the veteran Labour [left wing] MP and Cabinet Minister under various Prime Ministers "Once the police can interfere with Parliament, we are into the police state.  Parliament is a safeguard against the abuse of power and once you start clamping down on it you are saying goodbye to the freedom it gives you". 8-) 8-)

These two quotes, for me, sum up all that has gone wrong with the arresting of an Shadow Cabinet Minister using up to 20 police officers that searched not only his home, but his constitutional office and his parliamentary records.

The big questions must be, in my humble opinion, why are the public not entitled to learn of the real truth behind their democracy?; who gave the order to breach the Parliamentary Privilage of a serving MP and Shadow Cabinet Minister?; what is the justification and authority of the police to search through the Parliamentary records of a Shadow Cabinet Minister of the Opposition Party?, and finally where does this leave our democracy and the rights of elected Members of Parliament to obtain the truthful facts for their citizens, without fear and oppression?

Not being too OTT, but this is how the Nazis in Germany after Hitler's appointment as Chancellor at noon on 30th January 1933 started to dismantle the democratic state.(Shire, W. (1970) The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich p.187  London : Book Club Associates.  

The freedom and liberty of our democratic state must not be so weakened by the unfortunate and misguided actions of a few in a socialist Goverment that is becoming more desperate by the day.  

[albitz]

Made my blood boil.Apparently anti terrorist police were used to search his properties,and I believe he was held for nine hours.
He embaressed Jacqi Smith last year by revealing that she knew about illegal immigrants working in the home office and being given licences to work in security.
He has taken it upon himself to expose the incompetence and downright dishonesty of the government and it looks like they are trying to put the frighteners on him.
Once again Stalin would be proud.
 
Edit; They also made sure they did this while parliament is in recess,hoping the dust will settle before parliament sits again. Spineless b*st*rds.

[ffcgary1]

The police will use anti terroist laws given to them by this goverment to use against this goverment and anyone who they think is not toeing the line, it has been said for a long time now that the police do not want the population to have to much say and power as a democracy gives. Remember big brother is watching you and it will only get worse. The laws in this country got divorced from justice a long time ago.

[albitz]

Someone once said,"the law and justice are distant cousins."

[JamesV6CDX]

The freedom and liberty of our democratic state must not be so weakened by the unfortunate and misguided actions of a few in a socialist Goverment that is becoming more desperate by the day.  

If information is indeed "leaked" as part of a strategy then I think it has to be done with the formal consent of certain people in government (not sure exactly who).

From what I can get from the BBC news article, This involved a junior official, who  over a period of time, released information that could be used to attack the Government.

It could be argued this information was leaked in such a manner, that it was an attempt to undermine or damage the Government currently in power?

I think this was the motivation for the arrest, rather than a conspiracy theory around the Government instructing the Police to lock up opposition politicians.

Also don't forget that all that is needed at this stage is a reasonable suspision the crime has been committed - and an arrest is just necessary as it's a formal part of the Police investigation.

The guy might yet be innocent - but as long as they had reasonable suspicion to investigate this, the met, or the governement, haven't really done anything wrong, IMO. Just because he's been nicked doesn't mean he's guilty, it just means he's being looked in to.

According to the Met spokesperson, the investigation was started soley by the Police with no Government approval, so if you take this at Face value, it doesn't indicate any governement corruption?

My understanding of Democracy is a right to vote, I don't think this right has been compromised, so I'm not sure there is an attack on Britain's Democracy?

I personally am undecided as to what may be going on, and we are not likely to get full facts - but I think it may be a bit early to call it an attack?

[Jay w]

possibly time that we voted on this.....

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/GoToCountryNow/

[albitz]

Members of parliament have for centuries enjoyed parliamentary privilige and immunity (as long as national security isnt compromised),in order to allow them to be free to inform the electorate and protect democracy,this convention was thrown in the dustbin on Thursday.
I suspect they are worried if he digs much deeper he may stumble on something too big even for them to cover up.
Edit; it is afaik previously unheard of since Cromwellian times for an MP to be arrested in these circumstances.

[Bandit127]

This government - and the Civil Service - is leakier than a sieve and something must be done. This MP has been made an example of and it should give others something to think about.  

All this hyperventilation over the police state is exactly that in this instance. Hypervetilation.

IMO.
 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The freedom and liberty of our democratic state must not be so weakened by the unfortunate and misguided actions of a few in a socialist Goverment that is becoming more desperate by the day.  

If information is indeed "leaked" as part of a strategy then I think it has to be done with the formal consent of certain people in government (not sure exactly who).

From what I can get from the BBC news article, This involved a junior official, who  over a period of time, released information that could be used to attack the Government.

It could be argued this information was leaked in such a manner, that it was an attempt to undermine or damage the Government currently in power?

I think this was the motivation for the arrest, rather than a conspiracy theory around the Government instructing the Police to lock up opposition politicians.

Also don't forget that all that is needed at this stage is a reasonable suspision the crime has been committed - and an arrest is just necessary as it's a formal part of the Police investigation.

The guy might yet be innocent - but as long as they had reasonable suspicion to investigate this, the met, or the governement, haven't really done anything wrong, IMO. Just because he's been nicked doesn't mean he's guilty, it just means he's being looked in to.

According to the Met spokesperson, the investigation was started soley by the Police with no Government approval, so if you take this at Face value, it doesn't indicate any governement corruption?

My understanding of Democracy is a right to vote, I don't think this right has been compromised, so I'm not sure there is an attack on Britain's Democracy?

I personally am undecided as to what may be going on, and we are not likely to get full facts - but I think it may be a bit early to call it an attack?

James a Democracy is a Government by the people, in which the power resides in the people and is exercised by them.  MPs have Parliamentary Privelage in which they act without fear of restraint or harrassment to represent their constituence, and act in the interests of the rights and freedoms of us the people.

The raiding of a Shadow Minister's office and Parliamentary papers or records, which will contain very sensitive personal information and confidential matters concerning the Oppossition Party's business, is a dire event by the police which could result in a constitutional crisis.

Please note again the comments I quote in my original posting made by the veteran Labour MP Mr. Wedgewood Benn.

 "Once the police can interfere with Parliament, we are into the police state.  Parliament is a safeguard against the abuse of power and once you start clamping down on it you are saying goodbye to the freedom it gives you".  Wedgewood Benn.

This police action, no matter who instigated it, is an attack on our Democracy and the political freedom of the British people via their Parliamentary representative, who should be free to act in the best interests of those people without fear or harrassment from oppossing political agents.

[cem_devecioglu]

Someone once said,"the law and justice are distant cousins."

it depends on who made the law.. :-/

and who applies the law!

[JamesV6CDX]

This government - and the Civil Service - is leakier than a sieve and something must be done. This MP has been made an example of and it should give others something to think about.  

All this hyperventilation over the police state is exactly that in this instance. Hypervetilation.

IMO.
 

On the basis that he is currently being nothing more than investigated, I agree.

Let's wait until more facts are available, and (if charged) see if he is convicted by a court, before jumping to any conclusions  

[Kevin Wood]

The Police seriously need to step back from politics, if, as we are lead to believe, they did this completely off their own backs with no knowledge of the government.

The (other) idiot Blair has gone, which can only be a good thing. Now we need to remove all this anti terror legislation that is being abused and rein in some of the powers and corruption that are making this country nothing better than a tin pot dictatorship.  

Kevin

[JamesV6CDX]

The freedom and liberty of our democratic state must not be so weakened by the unfortunate and misguided actions of a few in a socialist Goverment that is becoming more desperate by the day.  

If information is indeed "leaked" as part of a strategy then I think it has to be done with the formal consent of certain people in government (not sure exactly who).

From what I can get from the BBC news article, This involved a junior official, who  over a period of time, released information that could be used to attack the Government.

It could be argued this information was leaked in such a manner, that it was an attempt to undermine or damage the Government currently in power?

I think this was the motivation for the arrest, rather than a conspiracy theory around the Government instructing the Police to lock up opposition politicians.

Also don't forget that all that is needed at this stage is a reasonable suspision the crime has been committed - and an arrest is just necessary as it's a formal part of the Police investigation.

The guy might yet be innocent - but as long as they had reasonable suspicion to investigate this, the met, or the governement, haven't really done anything wrong, IMO. Just because he's been nicked doesn't mean he's guilty, it just means he's being looked in to.

According to the Met spokesperson, the investigation was started soley by the Police with no Government approval, so if you take this at Face value, it doesn't indicate any governement corruption?

My understanding of Democracy is a right to vote, I don't think this right has been compromised, so I'm not sure there is an attack on Britain's Democracy?

I personally am undecided as to what may be going on, and we are not likely to get full facts - but I think it may be a bit early to call it an attack?

James a Democracy is a Government by the people, in which the power resides in the people and is exercised by them.  MPs have Parliamentary Privelage in which they act without fear of restraint or harrassment to represent their constituence, and act in the interests of the rights and freedoms of us the people.

The raiding of a Shadow Minister's office and Parliamentary papers or records, which will contain very sensitive personal information and confidential matters concerning the Oppossition Party's business, is a dire event by the police which could result in a constitutional crisis.

Please note again the comments I quote in my original posting made by the veteran Labour MP Mr. Wedgewood Benn.

 "Once the police can interfere with Parliament, we are into the police state.  Parliament is a safeguard against the abuse of power and once you start clamping down on it you are saying goodbye to the freedom it gives you".  Wedgewood Benn.

This police action, no matter who instigated it, is an attack on our Democracy and the political freedom of the British people via their Parliamentary representative, who should be free to act in the best interests of those people without fear or harrassment from oppossing political agents.

If the met had genuine suspicion that an offence had happened or was about to happen, then they are justified in investigating this - the arrest was just a means to do so.

Just because he's a Politician does not mean he is above the law, and if he is suspected of an unlawful offence, he should surely be looked into the same as anyone else would?

I actually don't think that's being a "Police State" - moreso the Police just acting with what they have sworn to do - impartiality.

Lizzie you may turn out to be correct with your theory - but all I am saying is at this stage, we don't know the full facts, so it's probably too early to label it an attack?

He's only been arrested to investigate a potential offence, he hasn't yet had any action taken against him or been convicted of anything.

I'd like to see what happens with that, before making any firm opinion on what's going on, really...

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The freedom and liberty of our democratic state must not be so weakened by the unfortunate and misguided actions of a few in a socialist Goverment that is becoming more desperate by the day.  

If information is indeed "leaked" as part of a strategy then I think it has to be done with the formal consent of certain people in government (not sure exactly who).

From what I can get from the BBC news article, This involved a junior official, who  over a period of time, released information that could be used to attack the Government.

It could be argued this information was leaked in such a manner, that it was an attempt to undermine or damage the Government currently in power?

I think this was the motivation for the arrest, rather than a conspiracy theory around the Government instructing the Police to lock up opposition politicians.

Also don't forget that all that is needed at this stage is a reasonable suspision the crime has been committed - and an arrest is just necessary as it's a formal part of the Police investigation.

The guy might yet be innocent - but as long as they had reasonable suspicion to investigate this, the met, or the governement, haven't really done anything wrong, IMO. Just because he's been nicked doesn't mean he's guilty, it just means he's being looked in to.

According to the Met spokesperson, the investigation was started soley by the Police with no Government approval, so if you take this at Face value, it doesn't indicate any governement corruption?

My understanding of Democracy is a right to vote, I don't think this right has been compromised, so I'm not sure there is an attack on Britain's Democracy?

I personally am undecided as to what may be going on, and we are not likely to get full facts - but I think it may be a bit early to call it an attack?

James a Democracy is a Government by the people, in which the power resides in the people and is exercised by them.  MPs have Parliamentary Privelage in which they act without fear of restraint or harrassment to represent their constituence, and act in the interests of the rights and freedoms of us the people.

The raiding of a Shadow Minister's office and Parliamentary papers or records, which will contain very sensitive personal information and confidential matters concerning the Oppossition Party's business, is a dire event by the police which could result in a constitutional crisis.

Please note again the comments I quote in my original posting made by the veteran Labour MP Mr. Wedgewood Benn.

 "Once the police can interfere with Parliament, we are into the police state.  Parliament is a safeguard against the abuse of power and once you start clamping down on it you are saying goodbye to the freedom it gives you".  Wedgewood Benn.

This police action, no matter who instigated it, is an attack on our Democracy and the political freedom of the British people via their Parliamentary representative, who should be free to act in the best interests of those people without fear or harrassment from oppossing political agents.

If the met had genuine suspicion that an offence had happened or was about to happen, then they are justified in investigating this - the arrest was just a means to do so.

Just because he's a Politician does not mean he is above the law, and if he is suspected of an unlawful offence, he should surely be looked into the same as anyone else would?

I actually don't think that's being a "Police State" - moreso the Police just acting with what they have sworn to do - impartiality.

Lizzie you may turn out to be correct with your theory - but all I am saying is at this stage, we don't know the full facts, so it's probably too early to label it an attack?

He's only been arrested to investigate a potential offence, he hasn't yet had any action taken against him or been convicted of anything.

I'd like to see what happens with that, before making any firm opinion on what's going on, really...

"Only arrested"!!

He is a Shadow Cabinet Minister who is entitled to learn the truth of all government actions that affect the people he represent, but Damian has been arrested under caution and you like me knows what that means, when all the police needed to do was question him.  After all he is unlikely to leave the country!!

Funny it happened on the very day Sir Ian Blair officially stepped down as the Met's Police Commissioner after being effectively removed from office by the Conversatives via the Mayor of London?!

No, politics not justice is behind all this, which is a threat to the workings of our democracy.

I sincerely hope all will shortly be exposed for the public to make judgement.

[JamesV6CDX]

"Only arrested"!!

He is a Shadow Cabinet Minister who is entitled to learn the truth of all government actions that affect the people he represent, but Damian has been arrested under caution and you like me knows what that means, when all the police needed to do was question him.  

Going slightly off topic - if the Met had reason to believe an offence had been committed, would it not be unlawful to question him, if he wasn't under caution?

I sincerely hope all will shortly be exposed for the public to make judgement.

Agreed - I'm intreagued as to what's going on!

As said before, you may be right about it all - I'd just rather hold judgement until facts are known