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[LaserLance]

Serious subject .. but an attempt at humour  

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wtIjgsxe-jM&eurl=http://thecrownblogspot.*************/2008/11/gordon-browns-downfall-prequel.html

You may or may not smile .......

How close to the truth is that ?

[albitz]

Without wishing to take sides, and, like everyone else I have very few "facts" on this matter, only what is reported, but I do have one major problem with one of the answers given thus far.

Several folks have commented along the lines of "if the Met suspected a crime was being committed then they have to respond" - a statement that, on the face of it, I have no problem with ..... However .....

How would they "suspect a crime was being committed" unless someone told them AFAIK the Met are not clairvoyent .. therefore they were told, by someone.

The BIG question is by Who and Why It is the answers to those two points that really matters .. IMHO

If it was done by Powers within the present Government in order to embarrass/shut up Her Majesty's Opposition then it is exceedingly dangerous.

If it was done by a minor Civil Servant who didn't like his work being made common knowledge, then the "wait and see" approach is entirely reasonable.

The problem is ..  will we ever know the difference or the truth

The investigation into the leaks was ordered initially by the home secretary,that is not being denied.A civil servant was arrested around a week ago in relation to the matter.It could be that they got worried/pressurised/threatened/offered a deal and coughed the name of the MP.
Although she ordered the start of the investigation she and the prime minister claim to have had no knowledge of the arrest until after it had happened.
Gordon Brown built himself a formidable reputation for uncovering unpalletable facts about the last Tory government,and leaking them to the Daily Mirror,when he was in opposition.
Prior to last weeks budget statement,we were made aware of much of the content in advance because it had been leaked to the media by the no. 10 press office, was anyone arrested for this ?

[Kevin Wood]

Prior to last weeks budget statement,we were made aware of much of the content in advance because it had been leaked to the media by the no. 10 press office, was anyone arrested for this ?

Exactly. Leaks are a powerful tool, reserved for the use of the government and not the opposition, apparently.

Kevin

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Still no apology from Brown, PM or Jacque Smith, Home Secretary this morning for this appalling state of affairs as I have previously described!!

It is a complete and utter outrage that has very serious implications for our democracy and the Parliamentary Privilge enjoyed by our political representatives, the Ministers of Parliament, which is now being stated by all sides of the political spectrum and within Scotland Yard!

I do not know if this is enough to bring this damn Government down, but it should be!!

[LaserLance]

Still no apology from Brown, PM or Jacque Smith, Home Secretary this morning for this appalling state of affairs as I have previously described!!

It is a complete and utter outrage that has very serious implications for our democracy and the Parliamentary Privilge enjoyed by our political representatives, the Ministers of Parliament, which is now being stated by all sides of the political spectrum and within Scotland Yard!

I do not know if this is enough to bring this damn Government down, but it should be!!

i read in paper yesterday that it was authorised from the office of thr speaker and the sergeant at arms , no prizes who'll carry the can for it ,if it goes pear shaped and it wont be "Gorbals Mick"

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Still no apology from Brown, PM or Jacque Smith, Home Secretary this morning for this appalling state of affairs as I have previously described!!

It is a complete and utter outrage that has very serious implications for our democracy and the Parliamentary Privilge enjoyed by our political representatives, the Ministers of Parliament, which is now being stated by all sides of the political spectrum and within Scotland Yard!

I do not know if this is enough to bring this damn Government down, but it should be!!

I totally agree with you on the democracy issue Lizzie........but it will not bring the government down....also we all need to be careful what we wish for.

The alternative would be a Conservative administration that would be made up of a bunch of Eton  educated ....pot bellied.....wet lipped... Tory MP's who have little or no experience of real life and a kind of sneering contempt for the average person in the street (and Omega owner).

I believe that (if the tories win the next election) there would be more  Old Etonians in the government than since the days of Anthony Eden and Harold(...You've never had it so good) Macmillan ....in the late fifties and early sixties.


We need educated...articulate ..and erudite people to form the next government regardless of which party wins......but I have never seen these public school educated inbreds as our natural leaders .....even though I feel sure that is how they see themselves.

[albitz]

If they made david Davis leader and Ken Clarke chancellor I would seriously consider voting for them.
Camerons attacks on new liebour are as vicious as being savaged by a dead sheep,and Osborne is damaged goods after the Russian billionare episode.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Still no apology from Brown, PM or Jacque Smith, Home Secretary this morning for this appalling state of affairs as I have previously described!!

It is a complete and utter outrage that has very serious implications for our democracy and the Parliamentary Privilge enjoyed by our political representatives, the Ministers of Parliament, which is now being stated by all sides of the political spectrum and within Scotland Yard!

I do not know if this is enough to bring this damn Government down, but it should be!!

I totally agree with you on the democracy issue Lizzie........but it will not bring the government down....also we all need to be careful what we wish for.

The alternative would be a Conservative administration that would be made up of a bunch of Eton  educated ....pot bellied.....wet lipped... Tory MP's who have little or no experience of real life and a kind of sneering contempt for the average person in the street (and Omega owner).

I believe that (if the tories win the next election) there would be more  Old Etonians in the government than since the days of Anthony Eden and Harold(...You've never had it so good) Macmillan ....in the late fifties and early sixties.


We need educated...articulate ..and erudite people to form the next government regardless of which party wins......but I have never seen these public school educated inbreds as our natural leaders .....even though I feel sure that is how they see themselves.

You obviously don't like the "Rulling Elite" Optimist fresh from the playing fields of Eton!

Ok, so David Cameron was Eton educated, and then went to Oxford University; so what is wrong with that?  As you say we need well educated people to lead this country, and like it or not 'they' will so often come via Oxford as so many Conservative AND leading Labours MP's do!

Forget the class war bit, as where are those lines drawn now?  Tony Blair,  Harrold Wilson, along with my left wing hero Wedgewood Benn (from a landed family) were all educated at Oxford. As were Labour's current Cabinet MPs of David Miliband, Jacque Smith. Conservatives William Hague and George Osbourne also studied at Oxford.

Brown studied at Edinburgh University, Alistair Darling at Aberdeen, Jack Straw at Leeds.

If  you go through the ranks of MP's from all sides of the House you will find university educated people.  But where does Eton come into it....only with David Cameron at the top level of the Conservative Party as far as I can see.

The only thing this country needs is for the current Government to go and be replaced by "business minded" MP's, which for me personally, and I recognize it is not everyone's cup of tea, should be the Conservatives!

[LaserLance]

Still no apology from Brown, PM or Jacque Smith, Home Secretary this morning for this appalling state of affairs as I have previously described!!

It is a complete and utter outrage that has very serious implications for our democracy and the Parliamentary Privilge enjoyed by our political representatives, the Ministers of Parliament, which is now being stated by all sides of the political spectrum and within Scotland Yard!

I do not know if this is enough to bring this damn Government down, but it should be!!

I totally agree with you on the democracy issue Lizzie........but it will not bring the government down....also we all need to be careful what we wish for.

The alternative would be a Conservative administration that would be made up of a bunch of Eton  educated ....pot bellied.....wet lipped... Tory MP's who have little or no experience of real life and a kind of sneering contempt for the average person in the street (and Omega owner).

I believe that (if the tories win the next election) there would be more  Old Etonians in the government than since the days of Anthony Eden and Harold(...You've never had it so good) Macmillan ....in the late fifties and early sixties.


We need educated...articulate ..and erudite people to form the next government regardless of which party wins......but I have never seen these public school educated inbreds as our natural leaders .....even though I feel sure that is how they see themselves.

You obviously don't like the "Rulling Elite" Optimist fresh from the playing fields of Eton!

Ok, so David Cameron was Eton educated, and then went to Oxford University; so what is wrong with that?  As you say we need well educated people to lead this country, and like it or not 'they' will so often come via Oxford as so many Conservative AND leading Labours MP's do!

Forget the class war bit, as where are those lines drawn now?  Tony Blair,  Harrold Wilson, along with my left wing hero Wedgewood Benn (from a landed family) were all educated at Oxford. As were Labour's current Cabinet MPs of David Miliband, Jacque Smith. Conservatives William Hague and George Osbourne also studied at Oxford.

Brown studied at Edinburgh University, Alistair Darling at Aberdeen, Jack Straw at Leeds.

If  you go through the ranks of MP's from all sides of the House you will find university educated people.  But where does Eton come into it....only with David Cameron at the top level of the Conservative Party as far as I can see.

The only thing this country needs is for the current Government to go and be replaced by "business minded" MP's, which for me personally, and I recognize it is not everyone's cup of tea, should be the Conservatives!

its not just business minded MP's we need it some with half a ounce of commen sense not just some moron whos just left uni with a degree in political studies or science and goes straight onto be reseacher for someone ,what life expeirence they got ...... nada

[Martin_1962]

It may come as a surprise but I have a huge amount of respect for Tony Benn. Totally disagree with his policies but, as a parliamentarian, he is an absolute expert on the workings and importance of our system. Last night he was on TV and said this is an attack on our freedom as a democracy. If Benn says that, I can believe it is real.

This matter must not left to rest. The current administration has continually tried to override the mechanisms of the House and, these days, regards it as a nuisance.

We must also remember that people complained that the Thatcher government introduced too many criminal laws during its terms: some 800 between 1979 and 1990. In the same period of 11 years, however, Labour has introduced [size=12]3,609[/size] criminal offences - four times as many.  

Is it any wonder that we've had enough?            

Most centre right people do - he had friends from all parties

[Martin_1962]

If they made david Davis leader and Ken Clarke chancellor I would seriously consider voting for them.
Camerons attacks on new liebour are as vicious as being savaged by a dead sheep,and Osborne is damaged goods after the Russian billionare episode.

The ultimate combination of strong anti-surveylance leader and competent chancellor

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Still no apology from Brown, PM or Jacque Smith, Home Secretary this morning for this appalling state of affairs as I have previously described!!

It is a complete and utter outrage that has very serious implications for our democracy and the Parliamentary Privilge enjoyed by our political representatives, the Ministers of Parliament, which is now being stated by all sides of the political spectrum and within Scotland Yard!

I do not know if this is enough to bring this damn Government down, but it should be!!

I totally agree with you on the democracy issue Lizzie........but it will not bring the government down....also we all need to be careful what we wish for.

The alternative would be a Conservative administration that would be made up of a bunch of Eton  educated ....pot bellied.....wet lipped... Tory MP's who have little or no experience of real life and a kind of sneering contempt for the average person in the street (and Omega owner).

I believe that (if the tories win the next election) there would be more  Old Etonians in the government than since the days of Anthony Eden and Harold(...You've never had it so good) Macmillan ....in the late fifties and early sixties.


We need educated...articulate ..and erudite people to form the next government regardless of which party wins......but I have never seen these public school educated inbreds as our natural leaders .....even though I feel sure that is how they see themselves.

You obviously don't like the "Rulling Elite" Optimist fresh from the playing fields of Eton! ;D

Ok, so David Cameron was Eton educated, and then went to Oxford University; so what is wrong with that?  As you say we need well educated people to lead this country, and like it or not 'they' will so often come via Oxford as so many Conservative AND leading Labours MP's do!

Forget the class war bit, as where are those lines drawn now?  Tony Blair,  Harrold Wilson, along with my left wing hero Wedgewood Benn (from a landed family) were all educated at Oxford. As were Labour's current Cabinet MPs of David Miliband, Jacque Smith. Conservatives William Hague and George Osbourne also studied at Oxford.

Brown studied at Edinburgh University, Alistair Darling at Aberdeen, Jack Straw at Leeds.

If  you go through the ranks of MP's from all sides of the House you will find university educated people.  But where does Eton come into it....only with David Cameron at the top level of the Conservative Party as far as I can see.

The only thing this country needs is for the current Government to go and be replaced by "business minded" MP's, which for me personally, and I recognize it is not everyone's cup of tea, should be the Conservatives!

University is an excellent idea Lizzie.....I believe that around 44% of people now go on to university.....when I left school I think that the figure was around 3%...

I was disappointed that it was a Labour government who bought in tuition fees(a disgrace in my opinion.....but then that was Tory....oops sorry Tony Blair who came up with that one.

You are right Lizzie that most people will have gone to university who make up the government ....that is to be expected ...even welcome.

Institutions such as Eton however leave me cold ....they are an anachronism  that has no place in the world of today.

Lizzie....I think that perhaps we agree on more than we disagree on this forum ....but we obviously do not share the same views on all matters...(I can feel a Voltaire moment coming on here. )

I think that George Osborne was at Eton also along with Quite a few few otherTory front benchers......Univesity ....yes .....Eton ....no.

Don't get me wrong Lizzie .....I do not yearn for a "seventies socialist revival"....but I do not wish for a right wingTory government either.

Keep up the great posting Lizzie.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Still no apology from Brown, PM or Jacque Smith, Home Secretary this morning for this appalling state of affairs as I have previously described!!

It is a complete and utter outrage that has very serious implications for our democracy and the Parliamentary Privilge enjoyed by our political representatives, the Ministers of Parliament, which is now being stated by all sides of the political spectrum and within Scotland Yard!

I do not know if this is enough to bring this damn Government down, but it should be!!

I totally agree with you on the democracy issue Lizzie........but it will not bring the government down....also we all need to be careful what we wish for.

The alternative would be a Conservative administration that would be made up of a bunch of Eton  educated ....pot bellied.....wet lipped... Tory MP's who have little or no experience of real life and a kind of sneering contempt for the average person in the street (and Omega owner).

I believe that (if the tories win the next election) there would be more  Old Etonians in the government than since the days of Anthony Eden and Harold(...You've never had it so good) Macmillan ....in the late fifties and early sixties.


We need educated...articulate ..and erudite people to form the next government regardless of which party wins......but I have never seen these public school educated inbreds as our natural leaders .....even though I feel sure that is how they see themselves.

You obviously don't like the "Rulling Elite" Optimist fresh from the playing fields of Eton! ;D

Ok, so David Cameron was Eton educated, and then went to Oxford University; so what is wrong with that?  As you say we need well educated people to lead this country, and like it or not 'they' will so often come via Oxford as so many Conservative AND leading Labours MP's do!

Forget the class war bit, as where are those lines drawn now?  Tony Blair,  Harrold Wilson, along with my left wing hero Wedgewood Benn (from a landed family) were all educated at Oxford. As were Labour's current Cabinet MPs of David Miliband, Jacque Smith. Conservatives William Hague and George Osbourne also studied at Oxford.

Brown studied at Edinburgh University, Alistair Darling at Aberdeen, Jack Straw at Leeds.

If  you go through the ranks of MP's from all sides of the House you will find university educated people.  But where does Eton come into it....only with David Cameron at the top level of the Conservative Party as far as I can see.

The only thing this country needs is for the current Government to go and be replaced by "business minded" MP's, which for me personally, and I recognize it is not everyone's cup of tea, should be the Conservatives!

University is an excellent idea Lizzie.....I believe that around 44% of people now go on to university.....when I left school I think that the figure was around 3%...

I was disappointed that it was a Labour government who bought in tuition fees(a disgrace in my opinion.....but then that was Tory....oops sorry Tony Blair who came up with that one.

You are right Lizzie that most people will have gone to university who make up the government ....that is to be expected ...even welcome.

Institutions such as Eton however leave me cold ....they are an anachronism  that has no place in the world of today.

Lizzie....I think that perhaps we agree on more than we disagree on this forum ....but we obviously do not share the same views on all matters...(I can feel a Voltaire moment coming on here. )

I think that George Osborne was at Eton also along with Quite a few few otherTory front benchers......Univesity ....yes .....Eton ....no.

Don't get me wrong Lizzie .....I do not yearn for a "seventies socialist revival"....but I do not wish for a right wingTory government either.

Keep up the great posting Lizzie.

And thanks for your lively posting Optimist, I think it is great when two people don't agree on everything. although you are right we do agree on a lot between us, as you can have some wonderful debates!!

As for the Conservatives, you could be right and they have yet to really convince me and as you know I am a Conserative through and through!!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Still no apology from Brown, PM or Jacque Smith, Home Secretary this morning for this appalling state of affairs as I have previously described!!

It is a complete and utter outrage that has very serious implications for our democracy and the Parliamentary Privilge enjoyed by our political representatives, the Ministers of Parliament, which is now being stated by all sides of the political spectrum and within Scotland Yard!

I do not know if this is enough to bring this damn Government down, but it should be!!

I totally agree with you on the democracy issue Lizzie........but it will not bring the government down....also we all need to be careful what we wish for.

The alternative would be a Conservative administration that would be made up of a bunch of Eton  educated ....pot bellied.....wet lipped... Tory MP's who have little or no experience of real life and a kind of sneering contempt for the average person in the street (and Omega owner).

I believe that (if the tories win the next election) there would be more  Old Etonians in the government than since the days of Anthony Eden and Harold(...You've never had it so good) Macmillan ....in the late fifties and early sixties.


We need educated...articulate ..and erudite people to form the next government regardless of which party wins......but I have never seen these public school educated inbreds as our natural leaders .....even though I feel sure that is how they see themselves.

You obviously don't like the "Rulling Elite" Optimist fresh from the playing fields of Eton! ;D

Ok, so David Cameron was Eton educated, and then went to Oxford University; so what is wrong with that?  As you say we need well educated people to lead this country, and like it or not 'they' will so often come via Oxford as so many Conservative AND leading Labours MP's do!

Forget the class war bit, as where are those lines drawn now?  Tony Blair,  Harrold Wilson, along with my left wing hero Wedgewood Benn (from a landed family) were all educated at Oxford. As were Labour's current Cabinet MPs of David Miliband, Jacque Smith. Conservatives William Hague and George Osbourne also studied at Oxford.

Brown studied at Edinburgh University, Alistair Darling at Aberdeen, Jack Straw at Leeds.

If  you go through the ranks of MP's from all sides of the House you will find university educated people.  But where does Eton come into it....only with David Cameron at the top level of the Conservative Party as far as I can see.

The only thing this country needs is for the current Government to go and be replaced by "business minded" MP's, which for me personally, and I recognize it is not everyone's cup of tea, should be the Conservatives!

University is an excellent idea Lizzie.....I believe that around 44% of people now go on to university.....when I left school I think that the figure was around 3%...

I was disappointed that it was a Labour government who bought in tuition fees(a disgrace in my opinion.....but then that was Tory....oops sorry Tony Blair who came up with that one.

You are right Lizzie that most people will have gone to university who make up the government ....that is to be expected ...even welcome.

Institutions such as Eton however leave me cold ....they are an anachronism  that has no place in the world of today.

Lizzie....I think that perhaps we agree on more than we disagree on this forum ....but we obviously do not share the same views on all matters...(I can feel a Voltaire moment coming on here. )

I think that George Osborne was at Eton also along with Quite a few few otherTory front benchers......Univesity ....yes .....Eton ....no.

Don't get me wrong Lizzie .....I do not yearn for a "seventies socialist revival"....but I do not wish for a right wingTory government either.

Keep up the great posting Lizzie.

And thanks for your lively posting Optimist, I think it is great when two people don't agree on everything. although you are right we do agree on a lot between us, as you can have some wonderful debates!!

As for the Conservatives, you could be right and they have yet to really convince me and as you know I am a Conserative through and through!!

Red Lizzie really.....but it'll be our secret.

[albitz]

Also lets not forget that this is the government who leaked the details of Dr. David Kelly to the media,and the pressure of this drove the poor man to his death.The hypocrisy is sickening.