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[hotel21]

Agree that words are your most powerfull ally.  I started in a country town with a large airbase on its doorstep that frequently had RAF Regiment on the town as well 4/5 Commando not too far away.

There were max 3 cops on the nightshift and backup (max 2) was minimum 30 minutes away in any given direction.  You get nippy bruises in 30 minutes.....  

[Ken T]

Shame you couldn't have got the MP's involved. If you had spoken to the CO, I'm sure he wouldn't like bad publicity, and might have voluntered a few squadies and a 4 tonner to help clear up  

Ken

[hotel21]

Shame you couldn't have got the MP's involved. If you had spoken to the CO, I'm sure he wouldn't like bad publicity, and might have voluntered a few squadies and a 4 tonner to help clear up  

Ken

Tried that!  Too far outside the base boundary, apparently....  3 miles!!

QR was a good one though....  If not quite enough for a civpol offence - more a warning - but once back at the guardroom, the fellas could march and keep time whilst p!ssed....

[stuart30]

big snip.....

You got to admit this guy was a bit heavy handed to say the least

It would appear that way.

However, as said, we do not have the full circumstances.

You ever had to subdue a large trained killer thats got several beers inside them, totally discounting any illegal substances that have been swallowed or up their nostrils, without resorting to a CS spray or a stick?

I have, more than once.  Big adrenaline rush at the time but also one fekkin big laxative afterwards....  

Oh couldnt resist  

Ive seen first hand police officers having too restrain drunks/substance abusers and its quite a shock too see a guy who"s not much more than 5ft and 8 stone take four healthy fit officers too TRY and restrain him....nearly 15 mins it took too Finaly wear him down too get him in the back of a meat wagon (personally id have said  a truncheon in the face would have made more sense).

So while it may appear that the officers in the video were being unduly heavy handed if they were simply doing what was needed too get there job done then its not really anyone"s place too criticise them.

Through bitter personal experience ive little respect for the police and laws surrounding personal protection however too be fair they do have a tough job too do and drunk squaddies are not always the nicest of people.

James regards uniform...from memory dont you guys have a S before your collar number.?

[JamesV6CDX]

big snip.....

You got to admit this guy was a bit heavy handed to say the least

It would appear that way.

However, as said, we do not have the full circumstances.

You ever had to subdue a large trained killer thats got several beers inside them, totally discounting any illegal substances that have been swallowed or up their nostrils, without resorting to a CS spray or a stick?

I have, more than once.  Big adrenaline rush at the time but also one fekkin big laxative afterwards....  

Oh couldnt resist  

Ive seen first hand police officers having too restrain drunks/substance abusers and its quite a shock too see a guy who"s not much more than 5ft and 8 stone take four healthy fit officers too TRY and restrain him....nearly 15 mins it took too Finaly wear him down too get him in the back of a meat wagon (personally id have said  a truncheon in the face would have made more sense).

So while it may appear that the officers in the video were being unduly heavy handed if they were simply doing what was needed too get there job done then its not really anyone"s place too criticise them.

Through bitter personal experience ive little respect for the police and laws surrounding personal protection however too be fair they do have a tough job too do and drunk squaddies are not always the nicest of people.

James regards uniform...from memory dont you guys have a S before your collar number.?

Stuart...

Welcome back

I know we shared a few different opinions before your previous departure, but I must say I do agree with much of your last post.

In terms of collar number, no, we don't start with an S. Our collar numbers start with a certain single digit number which internally identifies us as Specials, but to the public just looks like a full time PCs collar no.

I think Forces have purposely tried to make Specials look the same as regular officers. At the end of the day, why not, if they're doing the same job and have the same powers and responsibilities.

Special Constables are by default are issued with a crown and the letters "SC" which can be pinned to epaulettes on the hi viz and clothing, but there's no obligations around this, as long as the numerical collar number is displayed. I personally wear it, because I'm open about what I do, and I enjoy it - and if someone asks me what the SC stands for, I have no problem explaining.


 

[Gaffers]

Having just watched the CCTV I cannot see anything which warranted that abuse. Yes he is in the army (they dont know that, I dont think) to them he is just another p!ssed up reveller, but he's in the REME (not a fighting arm)

A generalisation made here is that everyone in the army is a trained killer.  Yes we are allowed to use lethal force if required, but I myself am trained to repair human beings on the frontline and defend myself if attacked just like the rest of us in the AMS.  I am not taught, like some beleive, how to snap someone's leg with my thigh nor do I know how to perform the Vulcan sleep grip.  

I dont condone soldiers making a nuisance while out on the p!ss, in fact it often gives me more work, but in this picture I cannot see any reason for the force used.  In my view they are not respresentative of the police force I know, one which deserves respect for the work they do.  That officer at the head should be punished, that was not 'reasonable force' there are much better techniques you could use in that scenario.  That just seemed an easy excuse for gratuitous violence.

[bertiecbx550]

I was not going to comment on this subject but i will tell you what my colleague said upon seeing this video "he was lucky it was civvy police and not RMP"...now this comes from a former staff sargeant who served with the RMP`S as well as the South Staffs regt when i queried what he meant he told me that squaddies would always choose being nicked by civvys rather than RMP`S and thats all he would say on the subject.....

[HolyCount]

This is CCTV footage, therefore the original unedited version must be recorded somewhere. Why this was not brought up in Court I don't know, or perhaps it was, and we are only seeing an edited version from somewhere, and edited by someone trying to sensationalise things. I personally don't bother with newspapers, because whats in them is far from accurate.
However, coming back to my comment about Ki-Aikido, I am surprised that it took 3 police officers to subdue one person. A large trained killer with several beers inside him will be unwieldy, clumsy, liable to make mistakes. OK if he got hold of you it would be nasty, but don't let him get hold. Someone who has been drinking for a while, could probably be subdued with a few words, rather than physical force.
Ken

Been there, tried that ... got the bruises  

Alcohol negates normal inhibitions --- social niceties go right out of the window. If you have been trained to be aggressive and kill, that training will take over, in the absence of the usual control exerted by a sober mind.

Just read Gaffers post -- and take the point !  In the past I have come up against Paras and (not army) Marine Commandos -- and when they are upset they ARE a force to be reckoned with !!!!!

[Gaffers]

This is CCTV footage, therefore the original unedited version must be recorded somewhere. Why this was not brought up in Court I don't know, or perhaps it was, and we are only seeing an edited version from somewhere, and edited by someone trying to sensationalise things. I personally don't bother with newspapers, because whats in them is far from accurate.
However, coming back to my comment about Ki-Aikido, I am surprised that it took 3 police officers to subdue one person. A large trained killer with several beers inside him will be unwieldy, clumsy, liable to make mistakes. OK if he got hold of you it would be nasty, but don't let him get hold. Someone who has been drinking for a while, could probably be subdued with a few words, rather than physical force.
Ken

Been there, tried that ... got the bruises  

Alcohol negates normal inhibitions --- social niceties go right out of the window. If you have been trained to be aggressive and kill, that training will take over, in the absence of the usual control exerted by a sober mind.

Just read Gaffers post -- and take the point !  In the past I have come up against Paras and (not army) Marine Commandos -- and when they are upset they ARE a force to be reckoned with !!!!!

I take your point HC and I respect your experience in the matter but when we get taught on what we are allowed to do when arresting someone (be it in Iraq, Afghan or UK) we cannot do things like that officer was doing to the little scrote.  Take away the fact that he was army, the officers I doubt knew that at the time.  Would it have changed anything?

We, as a force, are held responsibile by the locals where we are for the stupid actions of a few. Equally, we all get labelled as baby-killers because a few cannot hold their liquor.  Cast your mind back to the video of the Iraqis getting beat up with battons - that gave cause to many locals sitting on the fence to pick up arms against us. And we all know where that lead us.  We all have an inherant right to self-defence, but once the threat is over you cannot do anything.

The short of my point is that the police have a difficult job, just like the army, but it does not warrant gratuitous violence when you feel like it.  If I was in a one on one situation with a p!ssed up reveller and I was the copper I would defo have been swinging, milling and thumping.  3 on 1 with him pinned on the floor and then whacking him and scraping his face along the tarmac is not reasonable force and should be punished.  There were other options for him to gain control of that arm before resorting to that.

[cem_devecioglu]

I want to show another picture..

     1 month ago a traffic police shouted "STOP" to a young boy with a

motorcycle,  he looked and try escape..

   According to our laws the police have the right to use a gun to

stop the vehicle..But not directly in the driver unless he/she has a gun

also..

   the boy didnt have license to drive..

   Result : The boy died..The police officer defend the self saying "I

shoot at the tires only"..

http://www.analitikbakis.com/haber/20081029/Polis-motosikletli-genci-vurdu.php

Policeman arrested (but will be free after some years)..But this will

not bring back the boy..

    

[albitz]

The fella was found guilty in court (breach of the peace or similar),he appealled the conviction and his appeal was upheld.T he judge said it was the worst case of police brutality he had experienced.
Im not anti police btw,my dad was a B special constable in Belfast (quite a different thing to being a special anywhere else). My best friend was in the police in Belfast until the stress caused him to need triple bypass in his 40,s and a good friend who joined in 1977 was murdered in his 1st week on duty.

[stuart30]

big snip.....

You got to admit this guy was a bit heavy handed to say the least

It would appear that way.

However, as said, we do not have the full circumstances.

You ever had to subdue a large trained killer thats got several beers inside them, totally discounting any illegal substances that have been swallowed or up their nostrils, without resorting to a CS spray or a stick?

I have, more than once.  Big adrenaline rush at the time but also one fekkin big laxative afterwards....  

Oh couldnt resist  

Ive seen first hand police officers having too restrain drunks/substance abusers and its quite a shock too see a guy who"s not much more than 5ft and 8 stone take four healthy fit officers too TRY and restrain him....nearly 15 mins it took too Finaly wear him down too get him in the back of a meat wagon (personally id have said  a truncheon in the face would have made more sense).

So while it may appear that the officers in the video were being unduly heavy handed if they were simply doing what was needed too get there job done then its not really anyone"s place too criticise them.

Through bitter personal experience ive little respect for the police and laws surrounding personal protection however too be fair they do have a tough job too do and drunk squaddies are not always the nicest of people.

James regards uniform...from memory dont you guys have a S before your collar number.?

Stuart...

Welcome back

I know we shared a few different opinions before your previous departure, but I must say I do agree with much of your last post.

In terms of collar number, no, we don't start with an S. Our collar numbers start with a certain single digit number which internally identifies us as Specials, but to the public just looks like a full time PCs collar no.

I think Forces have purposely tried to make Specials look the same as regular officers. At the end of the day, why not, if they're doing the same job and have the same powers and responsibilities.

Special Constables are by default are issued with a crown and the letters "SC" which can be pinned to epaulettes on the hi viz and clothing, but there's no obligations around this, as long as the numerical collar number is displayed. I personally wear it, because I'm open about what I do, and I enjoy it - and if someone asks me what the SC stands for, I have no problem explaining.


 

Ahhh they were just opions...no biggy.

Its probably years back i was thinking of the S on collar...might well have been the SC you describe.

Your quiet right regards specials looking same as full time officers...i still wouldnt fancy doing it but hope you enjoy it and it goes well for you.

[cem_devecioglu]

believe it or not, this was in our newspapers yesterday..

the world seems to be getting smaller :-/

[Dusty]

Police stations open part time pretend policemen

rather plastic pigs get on my nerves to say the slightest

Well, I don't mind admitting that I am a Special Constable with my local Force.

I joined because I want to actually bring something positive to my community (rather than sit back and moan about all the problems), and because it is also good for my own personal development.

I'm not at all offended by the comments about plastic pigs, etc - it's part of the job, which requires resilience. I do however, think these comments are a little narrow minded on your part, and definately verging on offensive.

How much do you actually know about the Special Constabulary?

Specials are fully trained and warranted Police Officers, sworn into the Office of Constable, who adhere to the same code of conduct, and have the same powers and responsibilities as a regular, Full time Constable, on and off duty.

We also go through the same disciplinary procedures, so the fact this person was a Special should have no bearing on the outcome of his disciplinary.

The majority of us are simply trying our best to bring something positive to the communities.

Not being funny some of them look daft and almost funny in my veiw

Are you referring to PCSOs (Police Community Support Officers), instead of Specials? Maybe you are confused?

As a Special Constable, my uniform, handcuffs , airwave, baton and other kit is absolutely identical to that of a regular officer. The only way you'd ever tell the difference, is if you had internal Force knowledge and could recognise it from my collar number. This applies to pretty much all Forces.

As said, I'm not at all offended by the above comments - but I'm a bit disappointed. Just bear in mind that, yes, you will get a few bad apples in the Police (Regulars, Special Constables, and PCSOs), but this happens in every profession - and it's unfair of you to tar genuine Officers with the same brush.
  

what irritates me even more is that this is where i live, am i supposed to call upon these pr*cks when i need help with anything??

Are you talking about every single officer in GMP, danny?  

Again - very generalised  

Well done james I think that you do a good job.

But it seems disrespectful to me that you are not paid for the job you do. :-/ :-/

If they police force is short of officers,then money should be made available to pay for them.

Good people such as yourself should not be used as free labour in my opinion.