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Author Topic: Thats My MV6 off the road  (Read 8713 times)

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hotel21

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #60 on: 19 January 2007, 12:02:28 »

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its Sunny here today  8-) no snow or rain or wind  :o

We haven't any snow since last November, up here!  :'(
I am starting to feel left out.  ;D

Its the anti cold properties of all the whisky fumes in the air round Morayshire!
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #61 on: 19 January 2007, 13:33:41 »

Loosing the front is normaly under steer which is pretty slow and predicatable (if you can do anything about it!)

Loosing the rear is generaly over steer which tends to happen much faster (the Senator is very tail happy.....and pretty quick to let go, the Omega is a lot more progressive due to the better weight balance) and requires more skill.

And remember....good tyres on both the front and the rear....
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Taxi_Driver

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #62 on: 19 January 2007, 18:47:50 »

I can definately see the point of best tyres on the back of V6 Omegas

However for 4 pots.....its pretty hard to make the back go.....unless your trying to do it. Or its wet conditions.....and then your not driving according to the weather conditions.

On my 4 pot id rather have the best tyres on the front for stopping power in case of emergency braking.
Id rather get grip than slide with abs cutting in.

On FWD such as Vectras......i carnt see how you could get the back end to loose it.....unless driving too fast when cornerning.

Perhaps someone would like to explain why my thinking is incorrect.

I can see the reason if your pushing the FWD or RWD car to the limit.....

Oh and as Mark says......its best to have good tyres on both.

And if anyones interested the Nankangs on the back of mine have now done 33k.....got an MOT warning about them 5k ago.....getting em changed next week  ;)

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Big Rod

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #63 on: 20 January 2007, 02:17:49 »

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Once you lose rear and don't catch it, you're in trouble...

Or in a ditch or round a tree!!

Seriously though, I can't say I've ever noticed my Meega understeering at all!! Always very progressive oversteer*. (Even with huuuuge tyres on the back and no LSD.).

*(Damn I wish I had the skill to drive it to it's limit!!!)
« Last Edit: 20 January 2007, 02:18:40 by Big_Rod »
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TheBoy

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #64 on: 20 January 2007, 09:35:12 »

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Once you lose rear and don't catch it, you're in trouble...

Or in a ditch or round a tree!!

Seriously though, I can't say I've ever noticed my Meega understeering at all!! Always very progressive oversteer*. (Even with huuuuge tyres on the back and no LSD.).

*(Damn I wish I had the skill to drive it to it's limit!!!)
Oh yes, the Omega can understeer badly if you try hard enough...  :-[
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Big Rod

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #65 on: 20 January 2007, 09:38:45 »

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Oh yes, the Omega can understeer badly if you try hard enough...  :-[

Mental note to self.................Must try harder!!!  ;D
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Paul M

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #66 on: 21 January 2007, 02:55:44 »

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On FWD such as Vectras......i carnt see how you could get the back end to loose it.....unless driving too fast when cornerning.

Perhaps someone would like to explain why my thinking is incorrect.

I can see the reason if your pushing the FWD or RWD car to the limit.....

Very easy to lose the back end on a FWD car if you've got good tyres up front and crap ones on the rear. All your "feel" comes through the front tyres, both the steering and throttle will communicate the levels of grip, so you drive within that limit. The problem comes when you need to back off for whatever reason, bend tightens up or someone pulls in front of you. As soon as the throttle is lifted, weight transfers to the front so the front tyres bite a little more, the rear tyres bite a little less, then snap the crap rear tyres have given up and you're going sideways! This is even more likely to happen if you swerve and lift off at the same time, as so many people do when the car starts to understeer.

It's a very well known phenomenon, and can actually be used to deliberately get the back end out on FWD cars as they obviously can't do power oversteer. Look up "lift-off oversteer".

It's unexpectedly happened to me a few times while driving FWD cars (good few years ago now), and it's not pleasant! I managed to catch it both times but I think at least a little of that is down to good fortune as much as fast reactions. First time was the classic worn front tyres swapped onto the rear, so the fronts had loads of tread while the rears had only 3 mm or so. Had to swerve to avoid a retard who didn't give way coming onto a fast roundabout between 2 70MPH dual carriageways, and of course I lifted off a little too.. snap! The guy's face was a picture when I got the car facing the right way again and proceeded to pull alongside him and give him some well deserved abuse. 2nd time was someone else's car (Peugeot 306) with just utter crap tyres all round, was giving it some gas going up a hill and round a bend and the front just started going straight on... no room to take any lock off so I just kept the wheel pointing the same way and lifted off the gas... snap, round it comes. Cought that one but overcorrected and it came back the other way! Man that was scary, the tyres on that thing really caught me out but thankfully I got it pointing the right way without hitting anything in the process :D

Hope that was some entertaining reading ;)
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Big Rod

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #67 on: 21 January 2007, 10:14:47 »

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On FWD such as Vectras......i carnt see how you could get the back end to loose it.....unless driving too fast when cornerning.

Perhaps someone would like to explain why my thinking is incorrect.

I can see the reason if your pushing the FWD or RWD car to the limit.....

Very easy to lose the back end on a FWD car if you've got good tyres up front and crap ones on the rear. All your "feel" comes through the front tyres, both the steering and throttle will communicate the levels of grip, so you drive within that limit. The problem comes when you need to back off for whatever reason, bend tightens up or someone pulls in front of you. As soon as the throttle is lifted, weight transfers to the front so the front tyres bite a little more, the rear tyres bite a little less, then snap the crap rear tyres have given up and you're going sideways! This is even more likely to happen if you swerve and lift off at the same time, as so many people do when the car starts to understeer.

It's a very well known phenomenon, and can actually be used to deliberately get the back end out on FWD cars as they obviously can't do power oversteer. Look up "lift-off oversteer".

It's unexpectedly happened to me a few times while driving FWD cars (good few years ago now), and it's not pleasant! I managed to catch it both times but I think at least a little of that is down to good fortune as much as fast reactions. First time was the classic worn front tyres swapped onto the rear, so the fronts had loads of tread while the rears had only 3 mm or so. Had to swerve to avoid a retard who didn't give way coming onto a fast roundabout between 2 70MPH dual carriageways, and of course I lifted off a little too.. snap! The guy's face was a picture when I got the car facing the right way again and proceeded to pull alongside him and give him some well deserved abuse. 2nd time was someone else's car (Peugeot 306) with just utter crap tyres all round, was giving it some gas going up a hill and round a bend and the front just started going straight on... no room to take any lock off so I just kept the wheel pointing the same way and lifted off the gas... snap, round it comes. Cought that one but overcorrected and it came back the other way! Man that was scary, the tyres on that thing really caught me out but thankfully I got it pointing the right way without hitting anything in the process :D

Hope that was some entertaining reading ;)

Is that not what Porsche 911's are infamous for? And they're RWD.
« Last Edit: 21 January 2007, 10:17:29 by Big_Rod »
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Markie

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #68 on: 21 January 2007, 10:22:00 »

Take care everyone " significant snowfalls" predicted in various parts of the UK today - i never know if this is good or bad news. :-/
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Big Rod

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #69 on: 21 January 2007, 10:26:52 »

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Take care everyone " significant snowfalls" predicted in various parts of the UK today - i never know if this is good or bad news. :-/

Bright sunshine here so far today Jock!! (But that could all change in the next five minutes!!)

Hope it doesn't last too long! I'm waiting for the builder to start my new garage with baited breath!!
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Markie

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #70 on: 21 January 2007, 10:28:19 »

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Take care everyone " significant snowfalls" predicted in various parts of the UK today - i never know if this is good or bad news. :-/

Bright sunshine here so far today Jock!! (But that could all change in the next five minutes!!)

Hope it doesn't last too long! I'm waiting for the builder to start my new garage with baited breath!!


What he`s building it with baited breath  :-/ no bricks and cement ?  ;D

Have fun  :y
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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #71 on: 21 January 2007, 11:02:20 »

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Take care everyone " significant snowfalls" predicted in various parts of the UK today - i never know if this is good or bad news. :-/

That will not include Derby. :(

We, at best, get a dusting nowadays.

I hope Nottingham get some decent snow though as Mark DTM's son will not have seen it before and he is old enough to enjoy it now! :)
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TheBoy

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Re: Thats My MV6 off the road
« Reply #72 on: 21 January 2007, 11:04:16 »

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Take care everyone " significant snowfalls" predicted in various parts of the UK today - i never know if this is good or bad news. :-/

That will not include Derby. :(

We, at best, get a dusting nowadays.

I hope Nottingham get some decent snow though as Mark DTM's son will not have seen it before and he is old enough to enjoy it now! :)
If you get snow up in Derby/Nottingham, I'll bring an old tray to go sledging :D
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