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[albitz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7964411.stm
They introduce "spying" legislation to combat terrorism and soon after are using it to watch dogwalkers,dread to think where we will be 5 years or so after they introduce IDcards.

[Debs.]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7964411.stm
They introduce "spying" legislation to combat terrorism and soon after are using it to watch dogwalkers,dread to think where we will be 5 years or so after they introduce IDcards.

"Absolute power corrupts; absolutely!"

It begins.........

[jjleonard]

It's an insidious practice by this godforsaken nanny state government that will get worse; nothing sort of an uprising will stop it.

Every time the government wishes to push through a new erosure of our civil rights they tag it under the catchall banner of 'this will help us stop terrorism, honest' and we, the public, either lap it up like the terrified lapdogs we are or try to subvert the process and get ignored anyway.

Apparently we voted these people in - i for one didn't see an inclusion on the ballot sheet that said they will assume responsibility for not only serving the general public, but also telling them what to do when their instructions are not required.

I'd vote for the tories at the next general election if I thought they were likely to be any better, but sadly they are not. This country needs entirely new leadership; one that trusts and includes the people, not one that excludes and distrusts their opinion.

Rant over.  

[vauxmad]

be honest we always knew some beurocrat would miss use it for their own ends

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7964411.stm
They introduce "spying" legislation to combat terrorism and soon after are using it to watch dogwalkers,dread to think where we will be 5 years or so after they introduce IDcards.

"Absolute power corrupts; absolutely!"

It begins.........[/[/highlight]quote]

I.D Cards
DNA samples taken at birth.......after which
All newborn babies with suspected possibilities of criminal/dangerous behaviour are to have a government approved "Brain Rewire"......to prevent any possible future anti-social behaviour.
Government approved .......24 hour CCTV .......to be fitted in all houses.......in all rooms ....in order to stamp out ......any family abuse.
All libertines ............to be executed ....
All television to become under  "State control"................all criticism of government will become illegal.
A more "harsh vesion" of Draconian law will be introduced into the U.K.

But otherwise everything will be just fine.

[Lazydocker]

"we" the people voted in Tony Blair, NOT Gordon Brown!

He should have had the balls to carry through his promise of a general election instead of running scared!

[Martin_1962]

It's an insidious practice by this godforsaken nanny state government that will get worse; nothing sort of an uprising will stop it.

Every time the government wishes to push through a new erosure of our civil rights they tag it under the catchall banner of 'this will help us stop terrorism, honest' and we, the public, either lap it up like the terrified lapdogs we are or try to subvert the process and get ignored anyway.

Apparently we voted these people in - i for one didn't see an inclusion on the ballot sheet that said they will assume responsibility for not only serving the general public, but also telling them what to do when their instructions are not required.

I'd vote for the tories at the next general election if I thought they were likely to be any better, but sadly they are not. This country needs entirely new leadership; one that trusts and includes the people, not one that excludes and distrusts their opinion.

Rant over.  

Actually I think the Tories wil be fine over this as this goes against the grain for many of them.

Read on David Davies views of personal liberty and privacy.

If ID cards worked why didn't MT bring them in during the NI troubles?

Anything to do with against the prinipals of conservatism?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

"we" the people voted in Tony Blair, NOT Gordon Brown!
He should have had the balls to carry through his promise of a general election instead of running scared!

True.................but it was the same when Major ......replaced Thatcher...in 1990...............he was not actually elected by the British people until the 1992 General election...............he remained PM until 1997................

[Lizzie_Zoom]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7964411.stm
They introduce "spying" legislation to combat terrorism and soon after are using it to watch dogwalkers,dread to think where we will be 5 years or so after they introduce IDcards.

"Absolute power corrupts; absolutely!"

It begins.........

Indeed Debs!!

We are witnessing now the rapid erosion of our liberal democratic states in the western world. No longer is the freedom and liberty of each citizen, providing it does not harm others, paramount.  'Security' is perceived as the over-riding critical objective, and there are those who are now using that against us, the general people,  to the full.

With rising unemployment, cultural pressures, and the widespread fiscal failure of the capitalist system, we are in danger of politically polarizing to the far right.  We are witnessing it across Europe, and I have seen evidence of it in certain threads on this forum! Even the BNP and other radical right wing groups around Europe are gaining power, as they did in similar circumstances in 1920s/30s German!

Some will say it can never happen! Regretfully however it can, and on the path we are on now, in our panic, pushing the values of liberalism to the rear of our primary objectives we are creating the 'Big Brother' totalitarian state.  

All citizens beware!  With every CCTV camera installed, continual expansion of personal information data banks, ID card schemes, monitoring of citizens communications, and forever increasing state intervention of our lives, all in the name of "State Security", we are fast declining into a pit of dark despair were the light of Locke, Mills, Kant and Rawls liberalism will expire under a Nietzsche state of dark proportions, with Machiavellian "the ends justifies the means" or even Bentham's Utilitarianism "for the greater good" policies ruling our lives.

At the next election all should make a conscious commitment to vote, and to support the political party(s) dedicated to personal freedom and limited state intervention, as envisaged by Nozick and Hayek in the traditional Conservative mode.  

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7964411.stm
They introduce "spying" legislation to combat terrorism and soon after are using it to watch dogwalkers,dread to think where we will be 5 years or so after they introduce IDcards.

"Absolute power corrupts; absolutely!"

It begins.........

Indeed Debs!!

We are witnessing now the rapid erosion of our liberal democratic states in the western world. No longer is the freedom and liberty of each citizen, providing it does not harm others, paramount.[/highlight]  'Security' is perceived as the over-riding critical objective, and there are those who are now using that against us, the general people,  to the full.

With rising unemployment, cultural pressures, and the widespread fiscal failure of the capitalist system, we are in danger of politically polarizing to the far right.  We are witnessing it across Europe, and I have seen evidence of it in certain threads on this forum! Even the BNP and other radical right wing groups around Europe are gaining power, as they did in similar circumstances in 1920s/30s German!

Some will say it can never happen! Regretfully however it can, and on the path we are on now, in our panic, pushing the values of liberalism to the rear of our primary objectives we are creating the 'Big Brother'[highlight] totalitarian state.  All citizens beware!  With every CCTV camera installed, continual expansion of personal information data banks, ID card schemes, monitoring of citizens communications, and forever increasing state intervention of our lives, all in the name of "State Security", we are fast declining into a pit of dark despair were the light of Locke, Mills, Kant and Rawls liberalism will expire under a Nietzsche state of dark proportions, with Machiavellian "the ends justifies the means" or even Bentham's Utilitarianism "for the greater good" policies ruling our lives.

At the next election all should make a conscious commitment to vote, and to support the political party(s) dedicated to personal freedom and limited state intervention, as envisaged by Nozick and Hayek in the traditional Conservative mode.  
 

[/highlight]

Broadly speaking Lizzie................I concur with what you say..........You just say it in a more articulate .......and erudite way than me.

[Nickbat]

Now snooping on the public has reached new heights with local authorities putting spy planes in the air to snoop on homeowners who are wasting too much energy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1164091/Council-uses-spy-plane-thermal-imaging-camera-snoop-homes-wasting-energy.html

The global warming scam, against which I have often posted, is being used as a platform for further eradicating our liberties.  

We are witnessing the socialist push for complete control. GB has watched while productive jobs have been lost, while central and local government bureaucrat jobs have mushroomed.

Of course, there will be lurch to the Right. It's inevitable. Also inevitable is that all this will lead to major social unrest. The people can only be pushed so far. I am amazed that the poll tax riots have not been repeated. Well, actually I'm not, as they were largely orchestrated by the Left. Now the Left is seeking control, so they have no interest in demonstrations. Strange that the Left always used to bang on about civil liberties, now they are silent.    

[jjleonard]

I agree with the points mentioned above regarding a lurch to the right, justified under the banner of maintaining our State Security as so beautifully written by Lizzie.

I, for one, do not agree that the Tories will apply any greater freedoms to the public than their current counterparts. Perhaps I am too cynical of our present political culture; I see the increasing efforts of the Tories to shout down the Labour policies as an opporuntity to gain votes rather than the objective of a wider ranging restoration of our long entrenched civil liberties.

I have every faith that the tories, once elected, will revert to type before long. Remember the poll tax riots? That uprising of the public was orchestrated in response to a Tory policy. Had it occurred today we would be complaining about it in much the same way that I find myself doing right now.

I used to laugh when discussions of our future turned to predictions of a state similar to that predicated in George Orwells' "1984". Now I don't laugh anymore. A revisit to that classic would find most of the horrifying predictions now present in society, and widely accepted by us, justified by the government in "protecting us from terrorism" - once a badge that was carefully used to avoid inciting panic, now used in every case where our ability to do as we please, provided we didn't harm others, is being curtailed.

If you haven't seen the film V - I suggest you watch it. It paints a bleak but accurate picture of our future. I for one am becoming more gloomy by the minute.  

Rant over. Again!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7964411.stm
They introduce "spying" legislation to combat terrorism and soon after are using it to watch dogwalkers,dread to think where we will be 5 years or so after they introduce IDcards.

"Absolute power corrupts; absolutely!"

It begins.........

Indeed Debs!!

We are witnessing now the rapid erosion of our liberal democratic states in the western world. No longer is the freedom and liberty of each citizen, providing it does not harm others, paramount.[/highlight]  'Security' is perceived as the over-riding critical objective, and there are those who are now using that against us, the general people,  to the full.

With rising unemployment, cultural pressures, and the widespread fiscal failure of the capitalist system, we are in danger of politically polarizing to the far right.  We are witnessing it across Europe, and I have seen evidence of it in certain threads on this forum! Even the BNP and other radical right wing groups around Europe are gaining power, as they did in similar circumstances in 1920s/30s German!

Some will say it can never happen! Regretfully however it can, and on the path we are on now, in our panic, pushing the values of liberalism to the rear of our primary objectives we are creating the 'Big Brother'[highlight] totalitarian state.  All citizens beware!  With every CCTV camera installed, continual expansion of personal information data banks, ID card schemes, monitoring of citizens communications, and forever increasing state intervention of our lives, all in the name of "State Security", we are fast declining into a pit of dark despair were the light of Locke, Mills, Kant and Rawls liberalism will expire under a Nietzsche state of dark proportions, with Machiavellian "the ends justifies the means" or even Bentham's Utilitarianism "for the greater good" policies ruling our lives.

At the next election all should make a conscious commitment to vote, and to support the political party(s) dedicated to personal freedom and limited state intervention, as envisaged by Nozick and Hayek in the traditional Conservative mode.  
 

[/highlight]

Broadly speaking Lizzie................I concur with what you say..........You just say it in a more articulate .......and erudite way than me.

Thanks Optimist!!

I just hope all our words will make a difference........somehow, anyhow.............we have all collectively just got to stop the rot and downward decline into a world I certainly do not want my grandchildren to inhabit.

Unfortunately it may take a revolution or, God forbid, a civil war to achieve it!!  

[jjleonard]

You know what, Lizzie? I fear you are right. I fear an uprising of the public / civil war is necessary. But, we can all do a little something to help the change:

Educate ourselves. With every person that switches off the news, doesn't read an intelligent newspaper (the Sun, i'm afraid, doesn't count), and immerses themselves in populist nonsense like Big Brother, or the latest trend of celebrity chasing weekly rags, the collective IQ of this country lowers.

We, as a nation, should be demonstrating that we UNDERSTAND the problem, have viewed it from all sides, and are able to articulate ourselves sufficiently to debate the issue with government. The age old argument of 'us vs them' pales when both sides have the same level of intelligence.

Jeremy Paxman is a good example. He understands the issues he debates, has a strong viewpoint, but is able to appreciate both sides of an argument and adjust his viewpoint to suit. He regularly demolishes those who don't have a sufficient case to put across a viewpoint, but has been tarred as 'confrontational' by the very people who are too scared to debate with him.

So - in short - don't pick up the remote, pick up a book! I fume when I hear morons like Jamie Oliver spreading the opinion that it's all right not to read a book. We should all be proud of our intelligence and exercise it regularly.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

You know what, Lizzie? I fear you are right. I fear an uprising of the public / civil war is necessary. But, we can all do a little something to help the change:

Educate ourselves. With every person that switches off the news, doesn't read an intelligent newspaper (the Sun, i'm afraid, doesn't count), and immerses themselves in populist nonsense like Big Brother, or the latest trend of celebrity chasing weekly rags, the collective IQ of this country lowers.

We, as a nation, should be demonstrating that we UNDERSTAND the problem, have viewed it from all sides, and are able to articulate ourselves sufficiently to debate the issue with government. The age old argument of 'us vs them' pales when both sides have the same level of intelligence.

Jeremy Paxman is a good example. He understands the issues he debates, has a strong viewpoint, but is able to appreciate both sides of an argument and adjust his viewpoint to suit. He regularly demolishes those who don't have a sufficient case to put across a viewpoint, but has been tarred as 'confrontational' by the very people who are too scared to debate with him.

So - in short - don't pick up the remote, pick up a book! I fume when I hear morons like Jamie Oliver spreading the opinion that it's all right not to read a book. We should all be proud of our intelligence and exercise it regularly.

Leonard you are spot on with all your observations!! 8-) 8-) 8-)