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[willyboy]

I think really the business of anyone getting work done by a member & paying is fine and should carry on this way, as some jobs do take a lot of time & effort, but we shouldnt need to worry about insurance etc in these circumstances for helping repair other members cars.
 I know if i were having some member work on mine at a meet or where ever & we had agreed a fee if anything went wrong I would just say I had done it on my own or with help of friend and money would never ever be mentioned there is no need , obviously if thats your own business then totally different guide lines i suppose.
Having being going to do my V6 cambelt since taking it off the road last year I have only been waiting for warmer weather & my health to improve, but sadly as you know things have got a lot worse since 2008.
I probably would have paid or asked for help at the York meet to get it done as have all the kit/locking kit too but realised rather too late I need the cam cover doing too & didnt have time to get any from the VX dealers , so didnt bother even starting the job plus felt like shit, (health wise)so I'm just sitting on the V6 Elite Est hoping I improve if not the kits will be sold with the car depending on the results of my recent biopsy/scan..
But back to the needing insurance guys to cover jobs we/you do on members cars is surely not needed as we are a group/club and it ends there.
Just my 10cents on this aspect
Billy

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I think really the business of anyone getting work done by a member & paying is fine and should carry on this way, as some jobs do take a lot of time & effort, but we shouldnt need to worry about insurance etc in these circumstances for helping repair other members cars.
 I know if i were having some member work on mine at a meet or where ever & we had agreed a fee if anything went wrong I would just say I had done it on my own or with help of friend and money would never ever be mentioned there is no need , obviously if thats your own business then totally different guide lines i suppose.
Having being going to do my V6 cambelt since taking it off the road last year I have only been waiting for warmer weather & my health to improve, but sadly as you know things have got a lot worse since 2008.
I probably would have paid or asked for help at the York meet to get it done as have all the kit/locking kit too but realised rather too late I need the cam cover doing too & didnt have time to get any from the VX dealers , so didnt bother even starting the job plus felt like shit, (health wise)so I'm just sitting on the V6 Elite Est hoping I improve if not the kits will be sold with the car depending on the results of my recent biopsy/scan..
But back to the needing insurance guys to cover jobs we/you do on members cars is surely not needed as we are a group/club and it ends there.
Just my 10cents on this aspect
Billy

I agree Billy!

If someone else in the OOF was ever to work on my car for reward or not, I believe they would be doing me a favour as a friend with a mutual passion for the Omega.  If something goes wrong, well tough!!  You know that you haven't taken it to a professional outfit i.e. Vx dealer, and gone for the cheaper and often far superior alternative!

But, as when I work on my car, I take the risk of breaking it (never happened yet!! ) so what is different if another member helps or does the job entirely?  I would say there is no difference.  #

You take the risk and no talk of insurance!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

[JamesV6CDX]

Iwe shouldnt need to worry about insurance etc in these circumstances for helping repair other members cars.Billy

For general assistance, with no money involved, I agree, no insurance needed.

[size=14]If money is changing hands, you NEED insurance[/size] - there's no question.

[largecol]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

[JamesV6CDX]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

[Lazydocker]

Iwe shouldnt need to worry about insurance etc in these circumstances for helping repair other members cars.Billy

For general assistance, with no money involved, I agree, no insurance needed.

[size=14]If money is changing hands, you NEED insurance[/size] - there's no question.

Which is why I only ever help out if I chose to. If said person then chooses to give me a drink, that's fine

[Grumpy]

I understand where Willie and Lizzie are coming from with this,
and in a perfect world I would agree with them, but we don't
live in a perfect world so I would have to agree with the advice
given by James.

In my experience what people say and what they actually do are
often polar opposites. If an accident happened and injured a family
member the hormones would start floating about and the emotions
would start to run high. Mix in an injury claims lawyer out to do the
best for his/her client and their own pockets and you'll be in big
trouble. They would take you to the cleaners without compunction.

It's a sad litigious society that we live in, but there it is, we have to
adapt to reality.

[JamesV6CDX]

back to the needing insurance guys to cover jobs we/you do on members cars is surely not needed as we are a group/club and it ends there.

Do you think that defence would hold up in a court?  

[nick v6]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

basicly what you are also saying
if you are working on another members car weather for money or not you will need insurance

[JamesV6CDX]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

basicly what you are also saying
if you are working on another members car weather for money or not you will need insurance

If helping a friend fix a car, for no financial reward, it's not such an issue.

If doing it for money (any amount of money) you have entered into a contract (even if no paper exists) and you really, really need insurance in this situation.

If anyone wants to chat about liability insurance and the inns outs of it I am happy to chat in PM - I had to investigate it and take out a Policy myself

[crazyjoetavola]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

This is the relevant term.  When it does, the actions of the good neighbour will not always stand them in proper stead.  

In today's society there has to be someone upon whom the blame eventually rests  Not the way it should be but unfortunately the way it is.  In many cases we have fallen from being independantly minded and helpful souls to individuals who have to think twice before acting on their natural inclination

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I understand where Willie and Lizzie are coming from with this,
and in a perfect world I would agree with them, but we don't
live in a perfect world so I would have to agree with the advice
given by James.

In my experience what people say and what they actually do are
often polar opposites. If an accident happened and injured a family
member the hormones would start floating about and the emotions
would start to run high. Mix in an injury claims lawyer out to do the
best for his/her client and their own pockets and you'll be in big
trouble. They would take you to the cleaners without compunction.

It's a sad litigious society that we live in, but there it is, we have to
adapt to reality.

There is a big difference of working on someones car as a PROFESSIONAL travelling mechanic as in Jame's case, or as an amateur friend helping out who gets rewarded with a pint or two.

The PROFESSIONAL needs insurance.

The AMATEUR does not.

[JamesV6CDX]

I understand where Willie and Lizzie are coming from with this,
and in a perfect world I would agree with them, but we don't
live in a perfect world so I would have to agree with the advice
given by James.

In my experience what people say and what they actually do are
often polar opposites. If an accident happened and injured a family
member the hormones would start floating about and the emotions
would start to run high. Mix in an injury claims lawyer out to do the
best for his/her client and their own pockets and you'll be in big
trouble. They would take you to the cleaners without compunction.

It's a sad litigious society that we live in, but there it is, we have to
adapt to reality.

There is a big difference of working on someones car as a PROFESSIONAL travelling mechanic as in Jame's case, or as an amateur friend helping out who gets rewarded with a pint or two.

The PROFESSIONAL needs insurance.

The AMATEUR does not.

Wholly disagree, Lizzie.

If the AMATEUR is charging any amount of money for his services, he Needs insurance

(By the way, I'm not a professional - I'm an enthusiast who is handy with a spanner. I still have comprehensive insurance though )

[nick v6]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

basicly what you are also saying
if you are working on another members car weather for money or not you will need insurance

If helping a friend fix a car, for no financial reward, it's not such an issue.

If doing it for money (any amount of money) you have entered into a contract (even if no paper exists) and you really, really need insurance in this situation.

If anyone wants to chat about liability insurance and the inns outs of it I am happy to chat in PM - I had to investigate it and take out a Policy myself

even if helping a friend do work on a car for say beer tokens is classed as exchanging money etc
and then it can go back to that
member a / member b situation

so basicly you need insurance what ever the situation

[JamesV6CDX]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

basicly what you are also saying
if you are working on another members car weather for money or not you will need insurance

If helping a friend fix a car, for no financial reward, it's not such an issue.

If doing it for money (any amount of money) you have entered into a contract (even if no paper exists) and you really, really need insurance in this situation.

If anyone wants to chat about liability insurance and the inns outs of it I am happy to chat in PM - I had to investigate it and take out a Policy myself

even if helping a friend do work on a car for say beer tokens is classed as exchanging money etc
and then it can go back to that
member a / member b situation

so basicly you need insurance what ever the situation

Beer tokens, no matter the amount - is still currency. Therefore you are charging - and need insurance if it goes wrong.