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[crazyjoetavola]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

basicly what you are also saying
if you are working on another members car weather for money or not you will need insurance

If helping a friend fix a car, for no financial reward, it's not such an issue.
If doing it for money (any amount of money) you have entered into a contract (even if no paper exists) and you really, really need insurance in this situation.

If anyone wants to chat about liability insurance and the inns outs of it I am happy to chat in PM - I had to investigate it and take out a Policy myself

In the case of personal injury or property damage I'm not so sure James.  As Grumpy rightly says in such cases, all bets would be off, most likely

[JamesV6CDX]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

basicly what you are also saying
if you are working on another members car weather for money or not you will need insurance

If helping a friend fix a car, for no financial reward, it's not such an issue.
If doing it for money (any amount of money) you have entered into a contract (even if no paper exists) and you really, really need insurance in this situation.

If anyone wants to chat about liability insurance and the inns outs of it I am happy to chat in PM - I had to investigate it and take out a Policy myself

In the case of personal injury or property damage I'm not so sure James.  As Grumpy rightly says in such cases, all bets would be off most likely

In light of the low cost of the insurance - you really might as well have it

[RobseyMV6]

Yeah i know there is so much red tape to all this and to be fair you have a point James, but to help the odd forum person out it would cost more for insurance then the drink you agree on from them... I'd only offer help if i'm 100 percent sure i can do the job.
But we hear so many bad storys from members about garages taking you for a ride and the jobs carryed out is shocking!!!    
Lots of us from this forum can do the job in half the time and twice as good!!  

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

basicly what you are also saying
if you are working on another members car weather for money or not you will need insurance

If helping a friend fix a car, for no financial reward, it's not such an issue.

If doing it for money (any amount of money) you have entered into a contract (even if no paper exists) and you really, really need insurance in this situation.

If anyone wants to chat about liability insurance and the inns outs of it I am happy to chat in PM - I had to investigate it and take out a Policy myself

even if helping a friend do work on a car for say beer tokens is classed as exchanging money etc
and then it can go back to that
member a / member b situation

so basicly you need insurance what ever the situation

So you believe an insurance company would be willing to insure an amateur mechanic for his work without any supporting evidence of his training and accreditation?  How much does that cost if they did offer insurance for that situation?

[nick v6]

even if your not charging anything at all
and just helping a friend out
it still goes back to that member a / member b thing

so if you do a job for nothing or £1000 insurance is needed

[JamesV6CDX]

we hear so many bad storys from members about garages taking you for a ride and the jobs carryed out is shocking!!!    
Lots of us from this forum can do the job in half the time and twice as good!!  

Totally agree

to help the odd forum person out it would cost more for insurance then the drink you agree on from them...

Don't be so sure

I'd only offer help if i'm 100 percent sure i can do the job.

Likewise.

I've never messed up before, until recently, when I forgot to fit a cam follower. I just thank god it was not a damaging component, and was on my own car.

I guess we're all only human - and however good we may be at doing something, we are all open to making an oversight...  

[JamesV6CDX]

Totally agree with you  , its a forum for friends (real or online) to share a common passion - OMEGAS!! As previously said i can understand if your livelihood/business depends/requires cover, but surely if a friend is asking a friend for help with his/her problem motor why would insurance come into it? We`ll be asking for VAT receipts for our beer-tokens next!  

I said it above, I will say it again.

If you are just helping a friend - it can be informal - no comeback - no insurance needed.

If you are doing it for financial reward - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE AND OPEN TO BEING SUED if you mess it up - and you therefore would be stupid not to be insured. Especially if working on suspension or brakes!!

Scenario:

* Member A charges member B to fit some new brakes.

* Member A doesn't fit the caliper properly.

* Member B crashes his car, causing injury to himself and others. His car is totalled due to poor workmanship and he is too injured to work again.

* Member A who did the work, has no insurance.

Would YOU want to be member A?

Let's be logical - the fact we are a "community of enthusiasts" is all well and good - but when the crap hits the fan - it simply would carry any weight or wash whatsoever.

All very well saying "I Trust you, don't worry, there won't be any comeback if it goes wrong" - however in reality, faced with big losses, people will chase you, and won't give a hoot about "Forum spirit"!

I will keep repeating - if you are working on cars of others, for money - YOU NEED INSURANCE  

basicly what you are also saying
if you are working on another members car weather for money or not you will need insurance

If helping a friend fix a car, for no financial reward, it's not such an issue.

If doing it for money (any amount of money) you have entered into a contract (even if no paper exists) and you really, really need insurance in this situation.

If anyone wants to chat about liability insurance and the inns outs of it I am happy to chat in PM - I had to investigate it and take out a Policy myself

even if helping a friend do work on a car for say beer tokens is classed as exchanging money etc
and then it can go back to that
member a / member b situation

so basicly you need insurance what ever the situation

So you believe an insurance company would be willing to insure an amateur mechanic for his work without any supporting evidence of his training and accreditation?  How much does that cost if they did offer insurance for that situation?

YES!! I told my insurance exactly what I am doing - and that I have no car qualifications - and they still covered me for a reasonable rate!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

even if your not charging anything at all
and just helping a friend out
it still goes back to that member a / member b thing

so if you do a job for nothing or £1000 insurance is needed

Well in that case Nick I will refrain from helping any member out

What kind of society have we come to when we cannot help someone else out without fearing litigation??!!.  

On this forum so often many members talk of the ills of our health & safety and litigation orientated society, but now I find a massive element supporting such crap!!

I am amazed and disappointed.

[RobseyMV6]

Ok, can i ask what insurance would cost for a day/month or year as i don't really know  :-/

[nick v6]

Yeah i know there is so much red tape to all this and to be fair you have a point James, but to help the odd forum person out it would cost more for insurance then the drink you agree on from them... I'd only offer help if i'm 100 percent sure i can do the job.
But we hear so many bad storys from members about garages taking you for a ride and the jobs carryed out is shocking!!!    
Lots of us from this forum can do the job in half the time and twice as good!!  

i agree with what you are saying
if you can do a job and are 100% sure you can do the job then that will be great
if your sort of 50/50 then dont do the job simple as

 all this insurance talk that james is going on about can really cause a big argument
if say a member lives 2 streets away and need's a bit of work doing
and they say break off i aint letting you touch my car you got no insurance even tho they are 100% sure they can do the work safley

this can turn into a argument plus can be carried on to the forum which will result in admin locking threads and people leaving

i dont think insurance is an issue i think it boils down to trust
weather money/beer tokens are being exchanged or not

thats my opinion

[nick v6]

even if your not charging anything at all
and just helping a friend out
it still goes back to that member a / member b thing

so if you do a job for nothing or £1000 insurance is needed

Well in that case Nick I will refrain from helping any member out

What kind of society have we come to when we cannot help someone else out without fearing litigation??!!.  

On this forum so often many members talk of the ills of our health & safety and litigation orientated society, but now I find a massive element supporting such crap!!

I am amazed and disappointed.

its not insurance lizze its trust
if i wanted some work doing and you could do the work i would gladly sort you out with some beer tokens/cash as i would trust you to do the work

[JamesV6CDX]

all this insurance talk that james is going on about can really cause a big argument

Why? My posts are reasonable, and unbiased, and polite. No need for any argument at all    :-/

if say a member lives 2 streets away and need's a bit of work doing
and they say break off i aint letting you touch my car you got no insurance even tho they are 100% sure they can do the work safley

How far you live won't have any bearing at all, on the fact insurance is needed if you fix cars for money.

this can turn into a argument plus can be carried on to the forum which will result in admin locking threads and people leaving

Depends on whether or not people want it to happen, or want to have a constructive debate.

i dont think insurance is an issue i think it boils down to trust
weather money/beer tokens are being exchanged or not

thats my opinion

And it's a very naive opinion at that .....  

[nick v6]

james
what insurance company did you goto to get insurance for not knowing what you are doing

if you tell an insurance company that you only know little bits about cars they will look at you as a high risk and see that you could be putting in loads of claims

they will either tell you to bog off and get qualifications or they will wack the insurance cost so high you will never make any money at all

[JamesV6CDX]

What kind of society have we come to when we cannot help someone else out without fearing litigation??!!.  

Welcome to the 21st century!

On this forum so often many members talk of the ills of our health & safety and litigation orientated society, but now I find a massive element supporting such crap!!

Not supporting as such Lizzie - just being sensible and avoiding any comebacks.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

even if your not charging anything at all
and just helping a friend out
it still goes back to that member a / member b thing

so if you do a job for nothing or £1000 insurance is needed

Well in that case Nick I will refrain from helping any member out

What kind of society have we come to when we cannot help someone else out without fearing litigation??!!.  

On this forum so often many members talk of the ills of our health & safety and litigation orientated society, but now I find a massive element supporting such crap!!

I am amazed and disappointed.

its not insurance lizze its trust
if i wanted some work doing and you could do the work i would gladly sort you out with some beer tokens/cash as i would trust you to do the work

Maybe Nick that is THE key to all this, so if you get another members help doesn't it mean that you trust them?

Whatever the pro's and con's to all this, and believe me I can see both sides of the argument no matter how distasteful to me one side is, how about if something like the following disclaimer, taken from the Forum Guidelines Section, was applied, but of course using different words?:
 
"READ BEFORE FOLLOWING ANY GUIDES
21. Sep 2006 at 10:37  
Obviously safety is paramount. These guides are all written by members who have done the jobs themselves, none of whom are professional technical authors. Therfore, they are to be read on the merit of items that will assist you rather than a precise 'follow this to the letter' type guide.

Whilst every care is taken to ensure the accuracy of these guides, you should satisfy yourself that they are applicable to your vehicle, you have the necessary skills to carry out the task and that you follow the usual safety procedures associated with working on any car. That is, you secure the vehicle using brakes, chocks and wedges where necessary and that you NEVER work on an car supported only by jacks. Always use axle stands positioned appropriately.

If you have any doubts regarding safety, ask BEFORE you attempt any job on your vehicle.

None of these guides are endorsed by the owners or administrators of this forum. You follow any of these guides at your own risk."

 :-? :-? :-?