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[Lizzie_Zoom]

its with great shame and embarrasment that i see my country send 2 bnp members to european parliament. How disgusting is that? A sad sad day for the United Kingdom.

absolutely Chris - just hope its an anomaly - there aren't really 1m nazis living among us are there??

I agree strongly with both of you Chris and Bannjaxx!

It is a most shameful day for British politics.  65 years after D-Day, when brave men from Britain fought against facism and racial predujice we see an organization representing those criminal views voted in by a small percentage of the population.  

Lets sincerely hope that the mainstream parties, and I don't care which ones, get their act together and re-establish the true qualities of British democratic political life.

..... would that were to be so Ms Zoom but I can't see it. :-/ :-/

The running sore has shown just how flawed many of the existing cadre of our political representatives - and indeed the very nature of this current parliamentary system -  are, so must ask again, who is capable of taking up the reigns?

I don't see an easy solution and to hope that the existing arrangement will deliver something of value after the general election is quite frankly laid bare for potential disappointment

I can't see any practical solution to this at the moment :-/ :-/

Have faith Zulu!  There is always a better tomorrow, and thank God there is still a majority of good honest people around in politics who want to see this awful episode behind them, striving for a better system.

In nature clearances and renewals have to take place to allow new shoots of life develop, as they will!! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

[Banjax]

its with great shame and embarrasment that i see my country send 2 bnp members to european parliament. How disgusting is that? A sad sad day for the United Kingdom.

absolutely Chris - just hope its an anomaly - there aren't really 1m nazis living among us are there??

I agree strongly with both of you Chris and Bannjaxx!

It is a most shameful day for British politics.  65 years after D-Day, when brave men from Britain fought against facism and racial predujice we see an organization representing those criminal views voted in by a small percentage of the population.  

Lets sincerely hope that the mainstream parties, and I don't care which ones, get their act together and re-establish the true qualities of British democratic political life.

hear hear Lizzie - what concerns me is that maybe it's not a protest vote? if it's a protest then vote for the greens or monster raving loonies or whoever - to vote BNP you need deep seated prejudice - never thought i'd say it - but thank god for UKIP as i think they stole a lot of BNP's potential voters

[Lizzie_Zoom]

its with great shame and embarrasment that i see my country send 2 bnp members to european parliament. How disgusting is that? A sad sad day for the United Kingdom.

absolutely Chris - just hope its an anomaly - there aren't really 1m nazis living among us are there??

I agree strongly with both of you Chris and Bannjaxx!

It is a most shameful day for British politics.  65 years after D-Day, when brave men from Britain fought against facism and racial predujice we see an organization representing those criminal views voted in by a small percentage of the population.  

Lets sincerely hope that the mainstream parties, and I don't care which ones, get their act together and re-establish the true qualities of British democratic political life.

hear hear Lizzie - what concerns me is that maybe it's not a protest vote? if it's a protest then vote for the greens or monster raving loonies or whoever - to vote BNP you need deep seated prejudice - never thought i'd say it - but thank god for UKIP as i think they stole a lot of BNP's potential voters

I think that is very true Bannjaxx

In fact at some ridiculous time of the early hours I was watching as Griffin was elected, and the BBC 'experts' stated that if the UKIP had just got 1,200 more votes Griffin would not have gained his seat!

So yes, although I personally would not vote for them, UKIP are a far better alternative to the BNP and certainly stopped the night from being far worse for decent politics.

[yatesDELTA]

Ofcourse if voting turnout wasnt so poor then BNP would most likely not have got their MEPs becuase mainstream people not voting would probably have voted lab/lib/con surely?

out of interest, is it particullarly likely that the BNP will achieve anything at Brussels?

My son is doing politics A level next year (currently doing GCSE's) and is quite enjoying all the current political issues lol

[Nickbat]

its with great shame and embarrasment that i see my country send 2 bnp members to european parliament. How disgusting is that? A sad sad day for the United Kingdom.

absolutely Chris - just hope its an anomaly - there aren't really 1m nazis living among us are there??

I agree strongly with both of you Chris and Bannjaxx!

It is a most shameful day for British politics.  65 years after D-Day, when brave men from Britain fought against facism and racial predujice we see an organization representing those criminal views voted in by a small percentage of the population.  

Lets sincerely hope that the mainstream parties, and I don't care which ones, get their act together and re-establish the true qualities of British democratic political life.

hear hear Lizzie - what concerns me is that maybe it's not a protest vote? if it's a protest then vote for the greens or monster raving loonies or whoever - to vote BNP you need deep seated prejudice - never thought i'd say it - but thank god for UKIP as i think they stole a lot of BNP's potential voters

Not sure that's an accurate analysis, Banjaax.

Here's my take on what happened:

There's is a huge disconnect between the political elite and the public. This has been made worse by the expenses crisis, but there is also a feeling of a lack of indentity. This is partly due to the overarching influence of the EU, but mainly due to NuLabour's inept policies and its enforced political correctness. To an extent this has also been the fault of the other parties. Immigration as a topic is strictly off the agenda amongst the elite.

My belief, based on personal experiences and the demographics of the voting areas, suggests that the BNP have actually taken votes from Labour. It may seem odd that a far-right party should take support from the left, but that's the way I see it. UKIP did very well in the more affluent, normally Tory-voting areas, and suggests to me that traditional conservatives want to see a harder line on Europe, especially with regard to the Lisbon Treaty. Without UKIP, the Tory lead over Labour would have been greater, but the BNP would still have done relatively well (for them), and they will continue to do so while the mainstream parties fail to get a grip on the political disconnect. If all they can do is heap abuse on the BNP, being tainted themselves, they will actually enhance the BNP's support.

The BNP should be ignored, they thrive on negative publicity.

But the blame for their small success in these elections can, I think, be laid at the door of all the mainstream parties, but obviously the greatest blame must be placed on Labour, being the party in office.

That's my reading, anyway.   

[crazyjoetavola]

its with great shame and embarrasment that i see my country send 2 bnp members to european parliament. How disgusting is that? A sad sad day for the United Kingdom.

absolutely Chris - just hope its an anomaly - there aren't really 1m nazis living among us are there??

I agree strongly with both of you Chris and Bannjaxx!

It is a most shameful day for British politics.  65 years after D-Day, when brave men from Britain fought against facism and racial predujice we see an organization representing those criminal views voted in by a small percentage of the population.  

Lets sincerely hope that the mainstream parties, and I don't care which ones, get their act together and re-establish the true qualities of British democratic political life.

hear hear Lizzie - what concerns me is that maybe it's not a protest vote? if it's a protest then vote for the greens or monster raving loonies or whoever - to vote BNP you need deep seated prejudice - never thought i'd say it - but thank god for UKIP as i think they stole a lot of BNP's potential voters

........does this indicate that the BNP picked up many votes because their message resonated with people? 

Although many would hope that this was indeed an indication of dissatisfaction with the political mainstream, I suspect not, and feel that this is the beginning of a schism which will fracture the political landscape from this point and will polarise this nation for some time to come.

I have seen this type of shift before in N. Ireland/Ulster/six-counties, call it what you will - when that shift of opinion gains traction, mainstream, reasoned and balanced political activity is disrupted but more worryingly, disregarded.

[crazyjoetavola]

its with great shame and embarrasment that i see my country send 2 bnp members to european parliament. How disgusting is that? A sad sad day for the United Kingdom.

absolutely Chris - just hope its an anomaly - there aren't really 1m nazis living among us are there??

I agree strongly with both of you Chris and Bannjaxx!

It is a most shameful day for British politics.  65 years after D-Day, when brave men from Britain fought against facism and racial predujice we see an organization representing those criminal views voted in by a small percentage of the population.  

Lets sincerely hope that the mainstream parties, and I don't care which ones, get their act together and re-establish the true qualities of British democratic political life.

hear hear Lizzie - what concerns me is that maybe it's not a protest vote? if it's a protest then vote for the greens or monster raving loonies or whoever - to vote BNP you need deep seated prejudice - never thought i'd say it - but thank god for UKIP as i think they stole a lot of BNP's potential voters

Not sure that's an accurate analysis, Banjaax.

Here's my take on what happened:

There's is a huge disconnect between the political elite and the public. This has been made worse by the expenses crisis, but there is also a feeling of a lack of indentity. This is partly due to the overarching influence of the EU, but mainly due to NuLabour's inept policies and its enforced political correctness.To an extent this has also been the fault of the other parties. Immigration as a topic is strictly off the agenda amongst the elite.

My belief, based on personal experiences and the demographics of the voting areas, suggests that the BNP have actually taken votes from Labour. It may seem odd that a far-right party should take support from the left, but that's the way I see it. UKIP did very well in the more affluent, normally Tory-voting areas, and suggests to me that traditional conservatives want to see a harder line on Europe, especially with regard to the Lisbon Treaty. Without UKIP, the Tory lead over Labour would have been greater, but the BNP would still have done relatively well (for them), and they will continue to do so while the mainstream parties fail to get a grip on the political disconnect. If all they can do is heap abuse on the BNP, being tainted themselves, they will actually enhance the BNP's support.

The BNP should be ignored, they thrive on negative publicity.

But the blame for their small success in these elections can, I think, be laid at the door of all the mainstream parties, but obviously the greatest blame must be placed on Labour, being the party in office.

That's my reading, anyway.   

disconnect between the political elite and the public.


lack of indentity. This is partly due to the overarching influence of the EU, but mainly due to NuLabour's inept policies and its enforced political correctness.

....and the portions of your text highlighted, Nick, give the clue that this is not an aberration but potentially a fundamental shift in the political stance of sizeable number of the voting public.

[Nickbat]

its with great shame and embarrasment that i see my country send 2 bnp members to european parliament. How disgusting is that? A sad sad day for the United Kingdom.

absolutely Chris - just hope its an anomaly - there aren't really 1m nazis living among us are there??

I agree strongly with both of you Chris and Bannjaxx!

It is a most shameful day for British politics.  65 years after D-Day, when brave men from Britain fought against facism and racial predujice we see an organization representing those criminal views voted in by a small percentage of the population.  

Lets sincerely hope that the mainstream parties, and I don't care which ones, get their act together and re-establish the true qualities of British democratic political life.

hear hear Lizzie - what concerns me is that maybe it's not a protest vote? if it's a protest then vote for the greens or monster raving loonies or whoever - to vote BNP you need deep seated prejudice - never thought i'd say it - but thank god for UKIP as i think they stole a lot of BNP's potential voters

........does this indicate that the BNP picked up many votes because their message resonated with people? 

Although many would hope that this was indeed an indication of dissatisfaction with the political mainstream, I suspect not, and feel that this is the beginning of a schism which will fracture the political landscape from this point and will polarise this nation for some time to come.

I have seen this type of shift before in N. Ireland/Ulster/six-counties, call it what you will - when that shift of opinion gains traction, mainstream, reasoned and balanced political activity is disrupted but more worryingly, disregarded.

I think your pessimism is misplaced, sectarian divides are totally different...and easier to manipulate by politicians.

Remember this, the BNP's share was 6.5%, but turnout was just 34%, meaning that only 2.3% of the population voted BNP and I would hazard a guess that the majority voted that way just to protest. Let's not get too carried away with this. 

[crazyjoetavola]

its with great shame and embarrasment that i see my country send 2 bnp members to european parliament. How disgusting is that? A sad sad day for the United Kingdom.

absolutely Chris - just hope its an anomaly - there aren't really 1m nazis living among us are there??

I agree strongly with both of you Chris and Bannjaxx!

It is a most shameful day for British politics.  65 years after D-Day, when brave men from Britain fought against facism and racial predujice we see an organization representing those criminal views voted in by a small percentage of the population.  

Lets sincerely hope that the mainstream parties, and I don't care which ones, get their act together and re-establish the true qualities of British democratic political life.

hear hear Lizzie - what concerns me is that maybe it's not a protest vote? if it's a protest then vote for the greens or monster raving loonies or whoever - to vote BNP you need deep seated prejudice - never thought i'd say it - but thank god for UKIP as i think they stole a lot of BNP's potential voters

........does this indicate that the BNP picked up many votes because their message resonated with people? 

Although many would hope that this was indeed an indication of dissatisfaction with the political mainstream, I suspect not, and feel that this is the beginning of a schism which will fracture the political landscape from this point and will polarise this nation for some time to come.

I have seen this type of shift before in N. Ireland/Ulster/six-counties, call it what you will - when that shift of opinion gains traction, mainstream, reasoned and balanced political activity is disrupted but more worryingly, disregarded.

I think your pessimism is misplaced, sectarian divides are totally different...and easier to manipulate by politicians.

Remember this, the BNP's share was 6.5%, but turnout was just 34%, meaning that only 2.3% of the population voted BNP and I would hazard a guess that the majority voted that way just to protest. Let's not get too carried away with this. 

...I hope it is Nick - but for sectarianism substitute racism and the politics of the absolute. 

The point I'm making is that when the appeal of rhetoric begins to embrace, reason is shunned and discarded for the new mistress

While the numbers are low, the longer there is a political vacuum the greater possibility exists for those numbers to increase.

[Vmax]

What annoys me is the number off people who can't get up off their sofas and drag themselves out to the polling stations to vote. BNP would not be any where in sight if the majority could be arsed. If you don't vote you have no voice and have no right to complain after the event ! just my opinion 

[Nickbat]

While the numbers are low, the longer there is a political vacuum the greater possibility exists for those numbers to increase.

Zulu, that is a very important point. 

We do indeed have a political vacuum and that is dangerous in many ways. You're right about the potential for extremists and, of course, that potential is increased by the economic damage being caused by the vacuum. No one in their right minds would invest in UK plc, while we have a lame duck administration. 

[Nickbat]

"Labour cannot win with the present Prime Minister. I was one of the seven who would not support his coronation after Tony Blair was shoehorned out of Number 10. But even I didn't think a Brown administration would be as inept as this one.

The Brownites are attempting to terrorise Labour MPs into inaction. If they succeed then we deserve our fate."...

"...the failure to deal with immigration and Europe is poisoning our political system. I have set out in the Balanced Migration campaign how we should counter positively the BNP. Similarly, we need to cut loose European politics from our domestic politics. Voters have no party to represent their worries on this score, only the BNP with their evil interests."


From Frank Field's blog today. The only Labour politician with a brain and a spine, methinks.

http://www.frankfield.co.uk/blog/q/date/2009/06/08/trust-rather-than-trick-voters/

[crazyjoetavola]

While the numbers are low, the longer there is a political vacuum the greater possibility exists for those numbers to increase.

Zulu, that is a very important point. 

We do indeed have a political vacuum and that is dangerous in many ways. You're right about the potential for extremists and, of course, that potential is increased by the economic damage being caused by the vacuum. No one in their right minds would invest in UK plc, while we have a lame duck administration. 

......indeed so Nick and unless that unsatisfactory situation is addressed, the thunderous oratory employed by those who would seek to gain credibility from that very vacuum, will resonate with those who deem themselves to be disaffected by, and dissatisfied with, the status quo

[crazyjoetavola]

"Labour cannot win with the present Prime Minister. I was one of the seven who would not support his coronation after Tony Blair was shoehorned out of Number 10. But even I didn't think a Brown administration would be as inept as this one.

The Brownites are attempting to terrorise Labour MPs into inaction. If they succeed then we deserve our fate."...

"...the failure to deal with immigration and Europe is poisoning our political system. I have set out in the Balanced Migration campaign how we should counter positively the BNP. Similarly, we need to cut loose European politics from our domestic politics. Voters have no party to represent their worries on this score, only the BNP with their evil interests."


From Frank Field's blog today. The only Labour politician with a brain and a spine, methinks.

http://www.frankfield.co.uk/blog/q/date/2009/06/08/trust-rather-than-trick-voters/

....it's nice to see Frank stepping up, he does have content worthy of attention

[Nickbat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PO5Gh3QGFI

Subtitles a bit strong, but this is VERY funny.