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[JamesV6CDX]

Primarly, for Mr McB, but anyone else feel free to comment/advise...

This may sound like a crazy question, but because you're now an ADI you seem an ideal person to ask. Something is driving me mad on the roads, and I'm struggling to find the best way of dealing with it.

Of course, I'm talking about tailgaiters.

It seems that everywhere I drive, someone is dangerously up my arse. It's been the case for so long, I'm even considering if I need to change my driving style, to try and avoid it.

I don't consider myself a nucience on the road. Although I don't take big risks, neither do I hang about with my driving, I always make my way up to the legal limit as quickly as I can, I never hog overtaking lanes on dual carraigeways, etc etc.

I passed my test first time, did my pass plus,  and my instructor was full of confidence that I was a safe driver - something I try and uphold to this day.

Eg tonight, there was a lorry doing 65mph ish on a dual carraigeway. I decided to pass, so gave a mirror check, lifesaver glance over my shoulder, another mirror check and out I go to the other lane. Nothing was in sight behind me at all, at that point. As soon as I move over, some headlights appear behind me in the distance, and are on top of me before I can blink. Someone behind me, doing breakneck speed, would literally have pushed me off the road had I not taken quick evasive action. Yet.. I was doing 75mph..

On empty A roads .. when something wants to pass me.. (when I'm at the legal limit) .. WHY ON EARTH (!) does it have to come within 6 inches of my rear bumper before pulling out?? I'd only have to tap the brakes, and it would cause carnaige!

Especially when the people hurt could have families, etc, or even worse kids in the cars.. all for the sake of gaining miliseconds..

What's wrong with people

Firstly, I guess I'm looking for some reassurance that it's not me, or anything I'm doing it's the other, full of agression "wrist shakers" on the roads...

And secondly, I'm wondering if I can adjust my driving style to reduce the problem. I feel like a very safe and confident driver, but I must admit I don't feel quite so in control when something is behind me at 60mph so close that I can just see it's headlights...

When I've got the girlfriends little girl in the car, and people drive around us like this compromising her safety for no need, I could literally put them through their own windscreens  :-/

Sad thing is, I've nearly given up driving on more than one occasion, for this reason...

[hotel21]

An observation, not a crit.  

The amount of people who now insist on sitting in lane 2 of a 2 lane or lane 3 of a 3 lane road leaving the lesser ones basically empty really annoy me.  Its as though they are trying to reserve a lane simply for themselves or take it upon themselves to become a self imposed traffic speed limiter.

To emphasise this, it seems that others who, on seeing this, take pleasure in sitting a few thou' from your back bumper as you describe whilst you are travelling at speed limit plus a couple.  Its as though they take umbrage at you obeying the limits.

Personally, I am no 2nd (or 3rd) lane speed vigilante who takes it upon himself to become a 70 mile per hour roadblock to slow down others.  Assuming you are the same, I can only intimate that, if you are in the situation where others are tailgating you at the limit, that perhaps the time taken for the various checks is such that, during this time, their substantially excess speed covers the intervening ground faster than you carry out your manouevre?

Alternatively, when you look rearwards you do simply do not look far enough behind and not see them approaching or have a reduced perception of the speed of vehicles??

I put it down to bad lane discipline in the UK.  Travel a few miles on the European roads network and you soon see that the fast lane/lane 3 is kept for that and drivers readily and quickly return to an inside lane after an overtake, thus leaving the 'fast' lane for what it was designed for.

As said, not a crit, simply looking for a reason why they are overhauling you as quickly as they seem to be.  

[JamesV6CDX]

An observation, not a crit.  

The amount of people who now insist on sitting in lane 2 of a 2 lane or lane 3 of a 3 lane road leaving the lesser ones basically empty really annoy me.  Its as though they are trying to reserve a lane simply for themselves or take it upon themselves to become a self imposed traffic speed limiter.

To emphasise this, it seems that others who, on seeing this, take pleasure in sitting a few thou' from your back bumper as you describe whilst you are travelling at speed limit plus a couple.  Its as though they take umbrage at you obeying the limits.

Personally, I am no 2nd (or 3rd) lane speed vigilante who takes it upon himself to become a 70 mile per hour roadblock to slow down others.  Assuming you are the same, I can only intimate that, if you are in the situation where others are tailgating you at the limit, that perhaps the time taken for the various checks is such that, during this time, their substantially excess speed covers the intervening ground faster than you carry out your manouevre?

Alternatively, when you look rearwards you do simply do not look far enough behind and not see them approaching or have a reduced perception of the speed of vehicles??

I put it down to bad lane discipline in the UK.  Travel a few miles on the European roads network and you soon see that the fast lane/lane 3 is kept for that and drivers readily and quickly return to an inside lane after an overtake, thus leaving the 'fast' lane for what it was designed for.

 

I have considered this point long and hard on many occasions.

Now.. personally, I will not break the speed limit by a big margin. and I NEVER use the 2nd or 3rd lane, unless I'm OVERTAKING.

So here's the scenario. I'm doing 70mph in the inside lane. I want to overtake a lorry doing 60. So, check all is clear, and check nothing is approaching at speed (yes I do have a good perception of how fast traffic approaches)... and move out. If something in the meantime comes up behind me, while I'm alongside the lorry, WHY does it have to come SO CLOSE, before moving to the clear lane 3 to overtake me?

This is my issue, and I think you're missing the point, I never, ever, put myself in a position that would slow down other road users in lane 2 and 3, and I always move back over as soon as it's safe to do so...

I think you're missing my point mate

As said, not a crit, simply looking for a reason why they are overhauling you as quickly as they seem to be.  

[Nickbat]

James, I feel the same as you about these tailgaters, especially when my little ones are in the back seat.

I have heard that some people adjust their windscreen washers so that they cause excess spray over the roof of their car (as well as washing their windscreens of course). When they get a tailgater, they just give their windscreen a wash. I understand that these moronic low-lifes then tend to back off, thus providing their victims enough time to safely move to the inside at the earliest opportunity. These prats (often seen in BMWs) can then get on with the important task of seeking out a location to have a prang.

[JamesV6CDX]

An observation, not a crit.  

The amount of people who now insist on sitting in lane 2 of a 2 lane or lane 3 of a 3 lane road leaving the lesser ones basically empty really annoy me.  Its as though they are trying to reserve a lane simply for themselves or take it upon themselves to become a self imposed traffic speed limiter.

To emphasise this, it seems that others who, on seeing this, take pleasure in sitting a few thou' from your back bumper as you describe whilst you are travelling at speed limit plus a couple.  Its as though they take umbrage at you obeying the limits.

Personally, I am no 2nd (or 3rd) lane speed vigilante who takes it upon himself to become a 70 mile per hour roadblock to slow down others.  Assuming you are the same, I can only intimate that, if you are in the situation where others are tailgating you at the limit, that perhaps the time taken for the various checks is such that, during this time, their substantially excess speed covers the intervening ground faster than you carry out your manouevre?

Alternatively, when you look rearwards you do simply do not look far enough behind and not see them approaching or have a reduced perception of the speed of vehicles??

I put it down to bad lane discipline in the UK.  Travel a few miles on the European roads network and you soon see that the fast lane/lane 3 is kept for that and drivers readily and quickly return to an inside lane after an overtake, thus leaving the 'fast' lane for what it was designed for.

 

I have considered this point long and hard on many occasions.

Now.. personally, I will not break the speed limit by a big margin. and I NEVER use the 2nd or 3rd lane, unless I'm OVERTAKING.

So here's the scenario. I'm doing 70mph in the inside lane. I want to overtake a lorry doing 60. So, check all is clear, and check nothing is approaching at speed (yes I do have a good perception of how fast traffic approaches)... and move out. If something in the meantime comes up behind me, while I'm alongside the lorry, WHY does it have to come SO CLOSE, before moving to the clear lane 3 to overtake me?

This is my issue, and I think you're missing the point, I never, ever, put myself in a position that would slow down other road users in lane 2 and 3, and I always move back over as soon as it's safe to do so...

I think you're missing my point mate

As said, not a crit, simply looking for a reason why they are overhauling you as quickly as they seem to be.  

As an aside, can I add that I've covered well over 100,000 motorway miles, which I think is enough to know what to look for and what not to do.. I complete my lane changes safely but also quickly and efficiently.

[hotel21]

James, I misconstrued your post.

Those who tailgate others are simply impatient imbeciles who are roadgoing bullies.  I have previously taken great delight in dealing with this professionally.

All I can suggest to you is that if you feel vulnerable whilst in the outside lane, then ensure that your stay there is of the shortest duration possible.  Once you resume the inner lane then you have all the breaking distance you require should something arise in front of you, provided you keep your distance, that is!

As for the lane 3 bullies, leave them to it.  I would not countenance 'brake testing' them but have seen it done.  It sometimes has the desired effect, but sometimes causes inattentive lockup/sudden swerve in Jonnie 5 series who then looses it, rolls it and takes out others driving normally in other lanes.  Not pretty and spoils more than one persons day.

Take care.

B

[JamesV6CDX]

James, I misconstrued your post.

Those who tailgate others are simply impatient imbeciles who are roadgoing bullies.  I have previously taken great delight in dealing with this professionally.

All I can suggest to you is that if you feel vulnerable whilst in the outside lane, then ensure that your stay there is of the shortest duration possible.  Once you resume the inner lane then you have all the breaking distance you require should something arise in front of you, provided you keep your distance, that is!

As for the lane 3 bullies, leave them to it.  I would not countenance 'brake testing' them but have seen it done.  It sometimes has the desired effect, but sometimes causes inattentive lockup/sudden swerve in Jonnie 5 series who then looses it, rolls it and takes out others driving normally in other lanes.  Not pretty and spoils more than one persons day.

Take care.

B

While I would love to teach them a lesson, I assure you I don't hit the brakes whilst on any lane of a motorway unless there is a genuine need... because I'm aware of the danger it could cause to lots of innocent parties.

Although, I mist admit, from a motorists point of view, I don't feel that the law does much about tailgaiting.

There are speed camera's all over the place, but to be honest, I think distance is more of an issue than speed, and I don't see it being actively addressed.

[hotel21]

I have no argument for you as regards speed camera numbers versus tailgating numbers and their imbalance.  

I know that in my area, tailgating is dealt with as often as possible, normally by unmarked cars and video evidence.  Possibly the same in your area with the unmarked cars doing what they were intended to do - blend into the background and detect what they can when they can. By doing this, you do not readily see them working?  

If it were a patrol car you see on the hard shoulder with a customer, do you firstly automatically think the customer was speeding or alternatively, that they were upto some other act such as tailgating?

B  

[JamesV6CDX]

I have no argument for you as regards speed camera numbers versus tailgating numbers and their imbalance.  

I know that in my area, tailgating is dealt with as often as possible, normally by unmarked cars and video evidence.  Possibly the same in your area with the unmarked cars doing what they were intended to do - blend into the background and detect what they can when they can. By doing this, you do not readily see them working?  

If it were a patrol car you see on the hard shoulder with a customer, do you firstly automatically think the customer was speeding or alternatively, that they were upto some other act such as tailgating?

B  

I firmly believe, that while they are idiots.. most people tailgaite because they have no true perception of the amount of danger they are causing..

[MaxV6]

I also find tailgating unbelievably stupid.
2 seconds distance is a MINIMUM , not "best practice"

my Solution is largely to get out of the way ASAP..

that doesn't always mean moving over though.....  as you say, in the middle of a normal overtaking manoeuvre it's not always possible,   if the situation allows it, i will accelerate , usually fairly rapidly, THEN get out of the way..

Sometimes  I'll do this as a planned part of the over taking manoeuvre , built in, because i can see, or perhaps just  sense some idiot is not going to pay any attention... and i can plan around that by simply adding the ooomph of the v6 to the equation where necessary.

if the situation doesn't leave room, I back off and sit behind the slower vehicle , say lorry, until such time as it does...


it's easier at night as you can observe the fast moving headlights more easily than in day time when a little black blob can become and audi RS6 in your rear view mirror with alarming rapidity.

I'm USED to seeing people pass me doing over 100

the Bottom end of the M40 is possibly one of the most heavily offended on stretches of Mway i know....

bits of the M25 can be that way also.

The M56 is also "quick" as is the A55 .......  

Just saying " I won't do more than 70" doesn't really cut it in some respects....

bottom line, is that if you're going to move out and overtake, you must plan for the traffic you might encounter... and this means making the overtaking manoeuvre as brief, efficient, and smooth as practicable, allowing for yourself, the slower vehicle, AND the moron coming up behind at 150, to traverse the same bit of space-time, without ever intersecting in that space or time.

or stay home

what irritates me is the people not realising that once you've passed the obstacle, you should pull back in to lane 1

sitting in the middle or fast lane, at ANY speed, is irresponsible..

[STMO123]

If someone tailgates me on the motor way, I dont brake, I simply lift my foot off the gas. Very gently down to 65, then 60, then 50 if necessary. They usually get the message.
Remember, these bullies are the same as any other bullies. When faced down, they back off. They are not going to drive into the back of you for fun. Not unless thet like prison food.

[Ronald_McBurger]

Ok, from a professional driving instructor's perspective, thsi is my advise.

James, in your original post you describe very well the picture. You have done everything correctly to overtake - except you have started speeding (75mph). Then this numpty appears behind you from nowhere.

Try this. Moving out intothe lane exactly the same and then contuinue monitoring the situation behind you whilst you gradually make progress on the lorry at 70mph. Lets just say you are 1/2 way past the lorry and numpty rushes up behind you. He is now a serious danger to you, so get rid of him.

When I used to teach martial arts we used to tell people that their best defence was NOT TO BE THERE. ie, bloke in pub cannot glass you if you have left.

So, you no longer want this muppet behind you. Now you have two choices, a controversial one and the other one. The controversial one is to deem your life to be in danger and thus take whatever action you see fit to save your life, ie speed up to get out the way. Mmmmm, just makes it worse and in fact, although this idiot is dangerous he is not actually ramming you -yet. If he does, that is of course different. The other method is to very gradually come off the gas a bit making you slow down to just below the lorry's speed so you start losing ground on the lorry. When back far enough inicate left and come back in behind the lorry allowing the moron to proceed. You have removed yourself from the danger.

After he has gone, just start again.

I meet dozens of morons a day. I teach my pupils this exact method for dealing with them. No gestures, no looking at the moron, just get yourself away from them.

Same thing in town with a moron too close. Just find a gap on the left, indicate EARLY and slow down gradually and look at the house/building etc on your left NOT the moron. Do not respond to hooting, shouting 'wan*er' or anything.

Always apologise even if you are right. ie, moron rushes up behind you and hoots, just raise you hand politely as if to say 'sorry I am on your road sir'. Defuses the situation very easily. As Hotel21 quiet rightly says, the police will deal with them when they see this behaviour.

I hope that helps. Once you start doing it, it all makes more sense. There are other more advanced techniques, but these ones do work, are used and can save your life. I know it is annoying to give way to these bullies, but imagine this. You are in a Post office queue and some drunk walks in and barges past you to the fornt. What are you going to do? Get stabbed or be 1 minute later getting home? There are a lot of idiots out there. Drunk drivers, drugged up drivers. What about the numpty behind you at 70mph? Same thing, except he HAS got a weapon - the car. IF, and I do mean IF he decides to nudge you at that speed you will be in real trouble, so get rid of him by moving out the way in a calm and controlled manner.

[Martin_1962]

Well I don't hang about and I get tailgated, also I have my own safer way of letting cars in front know I want to get past (on A roads). I sit at the overtaking position ready to accelerate past near to the white line, quite close but nowhere near a TG. Not as intimidating but gets the message through a lot better than hassling. But then I do get regularly a few cars doing half the limit (yes 30 in an open 60 - to work school run mums, on way home just a couple of real slowies).

I was following a not very fast van, safely got past him and when I caught up with traffic he tailgated me, couldn't see the head lights, he was miserable, but I couldn't overtake whats in front, so I have to ignore him.

The previous car I passed started to accelerate as I was passing,  after I pulled in they slowed down, so why accelerate while I was passing?

But remember one thing you are in a big heavy car with very good safety. Remember that when you have a little car up your bum.

Also most tailgaters do not realise they are doing it, and you need to remember this, they were bombing along and suddenly have to slow down, and that is just where they end up. There is no intention to intimidate you or hassle you, they have just shed 15mph or so and have ended up close to you.

If safe I would just ignore them. But try to look at their faces, are they wound up and in a daze, or just relaxed. If they are obviously doing it by habit just keep passing, if looking wound up get out of their way safely and quickly, a good technique is very gentle acceleration to increase the gap, you do not want the gap to shrink. Now the gap should be bigger, as if they are not realising it they won't speed up to match instantly. Failing this I suppose slowing down may work.

But years ago I realised speed uppers and tail gaters do not realise what they are doing.

Overtaking, well I am going to disagree with Finlay here and my technique is what I was told years and years ago and all revolves around Time Exposed to Danger (TED) the main principal is get the overtaking move completed as fast as possible. Police will not pull you for hitting 75 while passing an artic on an A road, as you are driving safely, as long as you slow down afterwards. Unfortunately the new PC way of thinking says do not break the speed limit, they prefer dead drivers to speeding live ones. But safety is paramount and accelerating then slowing down when on your side of the road is the safest way to overtake.

The most dangerous road users are people who try to prevent overtakes, a chap at work has had people swerving across lanes to stop him passing. I have had a very bad swerver myself, the one I had I ended up getting rid of in an interesting way - I used to know a traffic cop and gave him full details of all dangerous practises, swerving, brake testing, and getting aggressive at being overtaken or failing to overtake dangerously.

Here is a list of dangers. Three people including me can testify 1) Swerving, went all over the road trying to stop me - I ended up driving faster and going for it. I at the time had an old banger so he backed off rather than have an accident. 2) Brake testing with no brake lights, good job I was not close, seen by a few people. 3) Try to overtake when the car in front of me was turning right and I had stopped, he had a Diesel. When I started to move he pulled out to go, but I simply left him, oh and double white lines, this is when he got at his worst with other road users, a work mate saw this!

When needed the Police do a good job, dealt with a driver who kept being stupid with another work mate. I gave him a lift in when he forgot he had left his car at work and saw where he meant. Scrapped one complaint - noone did anything work but one was on a blind bend with double white lines. WM had finished his overtake and pulled in safely and this prat had passed him as just above. I have seen people O/T here but I would never do it there.

Sorry I a have rambled but thats life

[JamesV6CDX]

Ok, from a professional driving instructor's perspective, thsi is my advise.

James, in your original post you describe very well the picture. You have done everything correctly to overtake - except you have started speeding (75mph). Then this numpty appears behind you from nowhere.

Try this. Moving out intothe lane exactly the same and then contuinue monitoring the situation behind you whilst you gradually make progress on the lorry at 70mph. Lets just say you are 1/2 way past the lorry and numpty rushes up behind you. He is now a serious danger to you, so get rid of him.

When I used to teach martial arts we used to tell people that their best defence was NOT TO BE THERE. ie, bloke in pub cannot glass you if you have left.

So, you no longer want this muppet behind you. Now you have two choices, a controversial one and the other one. The controversial one is to deem your life to be in danger and thus take whatever action you see fit to save your life, ie speed up to get out the way. Mmmmm, just makes it worse and in fact, although this idiot is dangerous he is not actually ramming you -yet. If he does, that is of course different. The other method is to very gradually come off the gas a bit making you slow down to just below the lorry's speed so you start losing ground on the lorry. When back far enough inicate left and come back in behind the lorry allowing the moron to proceed. You have removed yourself from the danger.


After he has gone, just start again.

I meet dozens of morons a day. I teach my pupils this exact method for dealing with them. No gestures, no looking at the moron, just get yourself away from them.

Same thing in town with a moron too close. Just find a gap on the left, indicate EARLY and slow down gradually and look at the house/building etc on your left NOT the moron. Do not respond to hooting, shouting 'wan*er' or anything.

Always apologise even if you are right. ie, moron rushes up behind you and hoots, just raise you hand politely as if to say 'sorry I am on your road sir'. Defuses the situation very easily. As Hotel21 quiet rightly says, the police will deal with them when they see this behaviour.

I hope that helps. Once you start doing it, it all makes more sense. There are other more advanced techniques, but these ones do work, are used and can save your life. I know it is annoying to give way to these bullies, but imagine this. You are in a Post office queue and some drunk walks in and barges past you to the fornt. What are you going to do? Get stabbed or be 1 minute later getting home? There are a lot of idiots out there. Drunk drivers, drugged up drivers. What about the numpty behind you at 70mph? Same thing, except he HAS got a weapon - the car. IF, and I do mean IF he decides to nudge you at that speed you will be in real trouble, so get rid of him by moving out the way in a calm and controlled manner.

Thanks for the advice Fin.

I feel a little bit like some members on here don't understand the situation.

I do NOT hog lanes, I do NOT try and teach other drivers a lesson, and I do NOT try to enforce speed limits, neither am I a dawdler or an annoyance on the road. I UNDERSTAND the concept of getting out of the way quickly when overtaking, and I ACTIVELY DO THIS, but tailgiters are still present, and the point of this post, is how to best get rid of those

I may have mis-understood this, but who said "saying I won't do over 70 doesn't cut it" and the the only other option is to "stay at home"? That post basically implies that if I don't want to BREAK THE LAW by speeding when overtaking in lane 2, then I should stay home? I'm afraid I can't agree with this. I DO agree that when overtaking you need to to the manouver as fast as you can, and then move over. But it should be as fast as you LEGALLY can.

I've tried overtaking quicker, hitting sport mode and going up past 90mph plus, and to be honest this just increases the danger. People come up behind you just as close and just as quick, regardless of whether you're doing 70 or 100. Not to mention you're at risk of loosing a licence, just to compensate for some idiot who thinks he owns the road.

[x25xe]

James,

Just wanted to add a bit of moral support really - I agree with what you say.  I have done a fair few runs up and down the M40 lately for work.  There has not been one occasion where I have not been tailgated at one point or another.  I drive at around an indicated 75 which in reality is around 70 - 71.  Most of my trip is, I am afraid, in the middle lane, but that is due to the HGVs that are in the inside lane.  I try and read far ahead and get in the correct lane early particularly when HGVs overtake each other.  In this case, I am in the outside lane and will increase my speed to around an indicated 80.

As I am not a professional driver, not an advanced motorist (although I would like to do both) I cannot comment on what higher qualified people have said.  All I can say is that it seems to make sense to me.

It is a big problem and, as already stated, is caused by a general lack of lane disipline.  What I hate the most is when, whilst tailgating you, then then have the cheek to flash as well when they can see that there is a car on your left and you cannot move back into the middle / inside lane!

One other thing - I would ahve thought that it would be obvious to most people that the in the inside lane if something goes wrong with your vehicle you can make it to the hard shoulder with the minimum of fuss.