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[Dishevelled Den]

could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave  

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.

Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does??

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!!

That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality 

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix"

Was THAT what it was alll about ?  TBH never paid attention all the way through !!!!

That film was about a computer generated reality.  It is a different and 'smaller' theory than the Quantum Enigma, that is based on the nature of atoms throughout whatever the universe is. :-/ :-/ :-/

Now actually HC you are right, but it does need a few dozen bottles of wine and much talk to begin to grasp the concept, otherwise you can go mad just thinking about it!!

Too late pour moi, methinks 

...the great thing about debating reality or the lack thereof is that it's never too late, as time is a notional concept within that reality IMHO

............and may have passed already before we have experienced it in this perceived dimension, with all outcomes constructed within the initial creation of our known universe 13.7 billion years ago.

...that's the one to provide fodder for fertile thought Ms Zoom

[Dishevelled Den]

This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]

[Lizzie_Zoom]

This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]

..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives!

[Dishevelled Den]

This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]

..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D

....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?

[albitz]

Human life is not insignificant within the universe,you are equally as significant as everything and everyone else because.......
You are a child of the universe.....
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw-hGKruOYQ[/media]

Peace,love and vegetable rights man.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]

..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D

....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?

No, although we make decisions that seem to us to set a course of life so often later it appears it was all destined anyway!  Key moments in our lives could mean life or death, but just as though death seems a moment away, "something" takes over to pass that crucial time away!

What is that "something" we do not really know, although some of us suspect divine intervention, as I'm sure I have experienced on at least one ocassion, others think it is just luck.

So we, the atoms of a continually changing universe move on, and even when dead our atoms still do! Like the copper from the boilers from the ex-LMS Duchesses ended up in the overhead wires over the West Coast line they have previously ruled!

But our spirit is / could be somewhere else; back before the big bang of this birth of life; outside of it in a parellel situation 'with God', or back in a cycle of reformatting for future existence in this or another dimension to give us further life experiece??

We cannot know, only experience this existence for what it is, if we really know what it is!!

[HolyCount]

This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]

..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D

....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?

No, although we make decisions that seem to us to set a course of life so often later it appears it was all destined anyway!  Key moments in our lives could mean life or death, but just as though death seems a moment away, "something" takes over to pass that crucial time away!

What is that "something" we do not really know, although some of us suspect divine intervention, as I'm sure I have experienced on at least one ocassion, others think it is just luck.

So we, the atoms of a continually changing universe move on, and even when dead our atoms still do! Like the copper from the boilers from the ex-LMS Duchesses ended up in the overhead wires over the West Coast line they have previously ruled!

But our spirit is / could be somewhere else; back before the big bang of this birth of life; outside of it in a parellel situation 'with God', or back in a cycle of reformatting for future existence in this or another dimension to give us further life experiece??

We cannot know, only experience this existence for what it is, if we really know what it is!!

Do we, indeed, make those decisions, or are they, also, pre-ordained. Do we merely have the illusion of free choice ?

[Lizzie_Zoom]

This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]

..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D

....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?

No, although we make decisions that seem to us to set a course of life so often later it appears it was all destined anyway!  Key moments in our lives could mean life or death, but just as though death seems a moment away, "something" takes over to pass that crucial time away!

What is that "something" we do not really know, although some of us suspect divine intervention, as I'm sure I have experienced on at least one ocassion, others think it is just luck.

So we, the atoms of a continually changing universe move on, and even when dead our atoms still do! Like the copper from the boilers from the ex-LMS Duchesses ended up in the overhead wires over the West Coast line they have previously ruled!

But our spirit is / could be somewhere else; back before the big bang of this birth of life; outside of it in a parellel situation 'with God', or back in a cycle of reformatting for future existence in this or another dimension to give us further life experiece??

We cannot know, only experience this existence for what it is, if we really know what it is!!

Do we, indeed, make those decisions, or are they, also, pre-ordained. Do we merely have the illusion of free choice ?

In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway   I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do!

[Dishevelled Den]

In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway   I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do!

...so who - or what - is pulling the strings?

[Lizzie_Zoom]

In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway   I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do!

...so who - or what - is pulling the strings?

That, or it, is the big question that could unlock the answers to all the others!  I believe it is God, but others will believe other things, or nothing at all but nature itself! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

[Dishevelled Den]

In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway   I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do!

...so who - or what - is pulling the strings?

That, or it, is the big question that could unlock the answers to all the others!  I believe it is God, but others will believe other things, or nothing at all but nature itself! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

...and so it may well rest on that very unfashionable term, faith.

Faith in what the individual perceives as being the most reasonable answer to the question of who we are and what are we doing in this lifetime - but the big question remains, how did it start?

That's the one that can't be answered so easily

[HolyCount]

This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]

..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D

....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?

No, although we make decisions that seem to us to set a course of life so often later it appears it was all destined anyway!  Key moments in our lives could mean life or death, but just as though death seems a moment away, "something" takes over to pass that crucial time away!

What is that "something" we do not really know, although some of us suspect divine intervention, as I'm sure I have experienced on at least one ocassion, others think it is just luck.

So we, the atoms of a continually changing universe move on, and even when dead our atoms still do! Like the copper from the boilers from the ex-LMS Duchesses ended up in the overhead wires over the West Coast line they have previously ruled!

But our spirit is / could be somewhere else; back before the big bang of this birth of life; outside of it in a parellel situation 'with God', or back in a cycle of reformatting for future existence in this or another dimension to give us further life experiece??

We cannot know, only experience this existence for what it is, if we really know what it is!!

Do we, indeed, make those decisions, or are they, also, pre-ordained. Do we merely have the illusion of free choice ?

In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway   I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do!

My apologies, Lizzie. I read your statement as saying the outcome was pre ordained whatever the decision.

[Dishevelled Den]

My apologies, Lizzie. I read your statement as saying the outcome was pre ordained whatever the decision.

...whenever you think about it HC - whether we like it or not- most things we do, or plan to do are subject to the very random nature of what we perceive to be this reality.

Can we therefore consider our place in this life, in so far as we see it to have some form of worth, to be merely likened to the result of the throw of a dice?

[HolyCount]

My apologies, Lizzie. I read your statement as saying the outcome was pre ordained whatever the decision.

...whenever you think about it HC - whether we like it or not- most things we do, or plan to do are subject to the very random nature of what we perceive to be this reality.

Can we therefore consider our place in this life, in so far as we see it to have some form of worth, to be merely likened to the result of the throw of a dice?

Not so many centuries ago ( a mere nano second on the universal clock) there were no known "laws of physics". Gradually, over time, the human race has unlocked some of these secrets, some whereby a given occurence will have a predictable and unalterable outcome.  How many of these secrets are yet to be unlocked/ And .... how deep do the immutable "laws of physics" run ?

To be honest, in the days when life was lived almost entirely upon "faith" and the unquestioning belief that life was pre-ordained and all that we could do was make the best of it and live as well as we could (for some in the spiritual sense and for others more corporeal!), things seemed far less complicated.

Our "advances" have brought about many negatives as well as the pluses!

[albitz]

Anyone fancy a pint ?