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[TheBoy]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

all of it needs to go. it cannot be fixed, no matter who you replace.

[Dishevelled Den]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

Capri 8-) 8-)

[SJKOO01]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

all of it needs to go. it cannot be fixed, no matter who you replace.

Mmm.... which, the NHS, the Government, or both ?

[albitz]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

all of it needs to go. it cannot be fixed, no matter who you replace.

And replace it with what ? :-/

[TheBoy]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

all of it needs to go. it cannot be fixed, no matter who you replace.

And replace it with what ? :-/

The implication is it needs replacing? 

The private companies would fill the gap far more efficiently, and provide superior service

[albitz]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

all of it needs to go. it cannot be fixed, no matter who you replace.

And replace it with what ? :-/

The implication is it needs replacing? 

The private companies would fill the gap far more efficiently, and provide superior service

they have private companies doing the cleaning,and the hospitals are filthy and disease ridden.They also have private companies doing the food and its disgusting and inedible,it said on the news on Monday that prisoners now eat better than NHSpatients.
Not completely disagreeing,just not sure what the answer is tbh. :-/

[Dishevelled Den]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

all of it needs to go. it cannot be fixed, no matter who you replace.

And replace it with what ? :-/

The implication is it needs replacing? 

The private companies would fill the gap far more efficiently, and provide superior service[/quote]


...in principle I'm leaning in that direction but how would these providers be regulated to ensure sound value for money and performance while maintaining patient care - not the bottom line - as the priority :-/

[TheBoy]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

all of it needs to go. it cannot be fixed, no matter who you replace.

And replace it with what ? :-/

The implication is it needs replacing? 

The private companies would fill the gap far more efficiently, and provide superior service

they have private companies doing the cleaning,and the hospitals are filthy and disease ridden.They also have private companies doing the food and its disgusting and inedible,it said on the news on Monday that prisoners now eat better than NHSpatients.
Not completely disagreeing,just not sure what the answer is tbh. :-/

you can't do it piecemeal. PCTs can make such decisions, and the just issue contracts on unrealistic costs. The PCT will still be guaranteed customers (they get something like £1200 per head for their catchment area iirc? Which brings another argument about where the rest of my national insurance payments go  ).

If it was private, and proper competition

[albitz]

The private companies and the politicians would be feathering each others nests and scratching each others backs while the patients lay ibn bed suffering and ignored.Pretty much whats happening now actually but worse.
 

[Nickbat]

Yeah, but it's the managers who've made a mess of the NHS who'll be doing the firing of those that really should be kept in post won't it.

  

The more things like this happen, the more I think about moving abroad, where to go is the biggest question ?.

all of it needs to go. it cannot be fixed, no matter who you replace.

And replace it with what ? :-/

The implication is it needs replacing? 

The private companies would fill the gap far more efficiently, and provide superior service

they have private companies doing the cleaning,and the hospitals are filthy and disease ridden.They also have private companies doing the food and its disgusting and inedible,it said on the news on Monday that prisoners now eat better than NHSpatients.
Not completely disagreeing,just not sure what the answer is tbh. :-/

The NHS should be run by boards of apolitical lay-people appointed to each trust (i.e. not over-paid executives). These boards should comprise local people who have an enthusiasm for running efficient, but caring, hospitals. These would not be 9-5 positions, but would nevertheless be remunerated, but at a level of no more than £30k per year. I envisage a similar role to that played by school governing bodies (who are unpaid - I should know). They would not be afraid of taking the "right" decisions. They would not spend beyond the trust's means and their focus would be on frontline care, not on consultants. Additionally they would ensure that they are not seen by contractors as "cash-cows". Ask any company to quote for a public sector organisation and the quote is always much higher than usual because the tenderers know that the boards are not spending their "own" money and thus they flash pounds around like there's no tomorrow.

Just my view.   

[Kevin Wood]

The private companies and the politicians would be feathering each others nests and scratching each others backs while the patients lay ibn bed suffering and ignored.Pretty much whats happening now actually but worse.
 

Agreed. Except that rather then being the same for everyone it would be those unfortunate enough to have medical conditions that render them uninsurable, through no fault of their own, who would be left to rot.

I agree something drastic needs to be done. The NHS, along with the financial services, government, law enforcement, etc. is another institution that's fundamentally unfit for purpose. I just don't believe the private sector would bother with patients that aren't making them money. :-/

Kevin

[albitz]

I think your probably right Kevin and I think Nickbat has probably provided at least part of the solution.
The u.s. has a lot going for it imo,but afaik you really dont want to be a poor person living there and get ill,If you cant afford the insurance then you wont get much in the way of treatment ,.

[Dishevelled Den]

I think your probably right Kevin and I think Nickbat has probably provided at least part of the solution.The u.s. has a lot going for it imo,but afaik you really dont want to be a poor person living there and get ill,If you cant afford the insurance then you wont get much in the way of treatment ,.

I'm not wholly convinced on that A - it'll require some more thought.  It's a very complex body to organise on such a parochial basis,

Funding will always be the issue and the administration of those funds will be the potential stumbling block to such radical reform.

[LJay]

I think your probably right Kevin and I think Nickbat has probably provided at least part of the solution.The u.s. has a lot going for it imo,but afaik you really dont want to be a poor person living there and get ill,If you cant afford the insurance then you wont get much in the way of treatment ,.

I'm not wholly convinced on that A - it'll require some more thought.  It's a very complex body to organise on such a parochial basis,

Funding will always be the issue and the administration of those funds will be the potential stumbling block to such radical reform.

The NHS makes too many people, too much money for there to be any reforms!

I did the same job for 3 different NHS trusts in 2 years, each time there arrived a different set of managers, a different set of stationary, a different set of rules and training etc.. all costing god knows how much!

[Dishevelled Den]

I think your probably right Kevin and I think Nickbat has probably provided at least part of the solution.The u.s. has a lot going for it imo,but afaik you really dont want to be a poor person living there and get ill,If you cant afford the insurance then you wont get much in the way of treatment ,.

I'm not wholly convinced on that A - it'll require some more thought.  It's a very complex body to organise on such a parochial basis,

Funding will always be the issue and the administration of those funds will be the potential stumbling block to such radical reform.

The NHS makes too many people, too much money for there to be any reforms!

I did the same job for 3 different NHS trusts in 2 years, each time there arrived a different set of managers, a different set of stationary, a different set of rules and training etc.. all costing god knows how much!

...it always comes down to money in the end Lj and this is why change will will be very difficult to implement - sadly.

Your experience is a prime example of how the parochial element to the administration of such a large body can produce unintended and undesirable results.