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[doog]

how do you get it to start without the transponder in the key?

Doug

[VXL V6]

how do you get it to start without the transponder in the key?

Doug

It's a '94 model so no immobiliser fitted

[albitz]

you all fail to realise that driving will heat the car up much faster than leave it idling on the drive. Engine revs will be up, faster coolant circulation.

During the winter i leave at 7 am, its frosted, get back to station at 8pm its frosted, never had a need to sit there 'warming it up'

just drive you wimps

Wrong imo,you should try to let an engine get to operating temperature before putting it under load - ie driving.

http://images.omegaowners.com/documents/UserGuides/OmegaOct2002.pdf

Page 143, central column.

Warming up
Allow the engine to warm up while driving.
Do not warm it up by letting it run at idling
speed. 

Then again, thats just GM & Vauxhalls opinion

It would be interesting to know which side of this debate an engineer such as MarkDTM falls on. :-/

[tunnie]

you all fail to realise that driving will heat the car up much faster than leave it idling on the drive. Engine revs will be up, faster coolant circulation.

During the winter i leave at 7 am, its frosted, get back to station at 8pm its frosted, never had a need to sit there 'warming it up'

just drive you wimps

Wrong imo,you should try to let an engine get to operating temperature before putting it under load - ie driving.

http://images.omegaowners.com/documents/UserGuides/OmegaOct2002.pdf

Page 143, central column.

Warming up
Allow the engine to warm up while driving.
Do not warm it up by letting it run at idling
speed. 

Then again, thats just GM & Vauxhalls opinion

It would be interesting to know which side of this debate an engineer such as MarkDTM falls on. :-/

Its a huge myth that starting your car to warm it up first is good, its not.

Think about the basics, the engine may be warm, and those heaters  when you start driving, the transmission and suspension are not.

Slow driving warms up a car much better than left idling.

Start, leave maybe 10-30 seconds at most, then drive slowly until temp is raised. This way everything warms up together.

[albitz]

Not convinced Tunnie.the oil needs time to pump all around the internals and get to a temperature where it can flow effectively.the different metals need to get to operating temperature to operate with the correct clearances,I believe this should be done at idle speed rather than when the engine is turning at many times per second.Just like athletes need to warm up the muscles before running a race.It probably isnt as crucial as it was years ago, due to technology advances in oil and metallurgy, but I still believe its important.

[tunnie]

Not convinced Tunnie.the oil needs time to pump all around the internals and get to a temperature where it can flow effectively.the different metals need to get to operating temperature to operate with the correct clearances,I believe this should be done at idle speed rather than when the engine is turning at many times per second.Just like athletes need to warm up the muscles before running a race.It probably isnt as crucial as it was years ago, due to technology advances in oil and metallurgy, but I still believe its important.

Its your choice, but i'd save up for those replacement cats you will need 

[bob.dent]

I've been reading this debate with a bit of interest as I've always been lead to believe that a car should be driven immediately after starting rather than leave it idling to warm up. An article I read about this stated that it's to do with fuel not being completely burned until the engine reaches peak temperature and that the fuel residue from incomplete burning can cause damage to some engine parts. :-/

[VXL V6]

The cats will be fine, it's just that they don't work efficiently until hot.

The only way to damage the cats is if they become coated in fuel or oil, unless your engine management is completely stuffed or you have valve stem seal problems then neither will be a problem.

Besides, your cats barely get hot enough driving around normally and generally the car will need to be driven on a fast road before they'll reach optimum temperature.

[tunnie]

Yup, as bob says.

Engine is cold so computer says, have some more fuel to keep that idle up!

This chucks a lot of emmisions down the exhaust, cats needs high temps in the exhaust to help process the emissions. So if you do this daily (leaving car for 10 mins to warm up) you will block the cats.

And looking at mark adams price for a 4 pot cat at £227 its a very expensive method to warm your car up!

[albitz]

Yup, as bob says.

Engine is cold so computer says, have some more fuel to keep that idle up!

This chucks a lot of emmisions down the exhaust, cats needs high temps in the exhaust to help process the emissions. So if you do this daily (leaving car for 10 mins to warm up) you will block the cats.

And looking at mark adams price for a 4 pot cat at £227 its a very expensive method to warm your car up!

My cats have lasted 137,000 miles so far.They dont owe me anything.

[Kevin Wood]

The engine management will look after the cats whatever the engine operating conditions.

My take on this is that the engine will not be lubricated as effectively when cold, it will be building up contamination in the crankcase, water vapour in the exhaust, emissions will be terrible etc.

If you drive off, it will warm up very much quicker than if it's left idling, so will spend less time running cold. If it's idling, arguably there's less load on it so the effects of poor lubrication will be less.

Modern oils do a reasonable job of lubricating a lightly-loaded engine even when at sub-zero temperatures whereas that has not always been the case with older oils.

I will always drive off straight away if it's safe to do so but keep the loads on the engine low until the oil has come up to temperature (Note: that could well take a lot longer than for the coolant to get up to temperature).

Most important message, IMHO? Don't rag it when it's cold.

.. and if you can't see where you're going or there's a danger of the screen icing up when you move away, common sense dictates that you let it warm up until the heater can keep the screen clear!

Kevin

[Mr Skrunts]

The engine management will look after the cats whatever the engine operating conditions.

My take on this is that the engine will not be lubricated as effectively when cold, it will be building up contamination in the crankcase, water vapour in the exhaust, emissions will be terrible etc.

If you drive off, it will warm up very much quicker than if it's left idling, so will spend less time running cold. If it's idling, arguably there's less load on it so the effects of poor lubrication will be less.

Modern oils do a reasonable job of lubricating a lightly-loaded engine even when at sub-zero temperatures whereas that has not always been the case with older oils.

I will always drive off straight away if it's safe to do so but keep the loads on the engine low until the oil has come up to temperature (Note: that could well take a lot longer than for the coolant to get up to temperature).

Most important message, IMHO? Don't rag it when it's cold.

.. and if you can't see where you're going or there's a danger of the screen icing up when you move away, common sense dictates that you let it warm up until the heater can keep the screen clear!

Kevin

and that now means we have come full circle in the debate.

COMMON SENCE - Whether the engine is hot or not, if I cant see through my screen without having to wipe it on the inside with anything then the car remains in PARK, and the reason why I would consider a remote start system.   

[nick v6]

how do you get it to start without the transponder in the key?

Doug

i bypassed my immobiliseras the alarm system i fitted has a immobiliser built in

ann's tigra is a N reg 1996 that had a transpoder in it and i bypassed that as well

[tunnie]

how do you get it to start without the transponder in the key?

Doug

i bypassed my immobiliseras the alarm system i fitted has a immobiliser built in

ann's tigra is a N reg 1996 that had a transpoder in it and i bypassed that as well

Told your insurance company? 

Someone can just smash the window, get in, snap the steering lock and drive off. Doubt you would be covered.

[nick v6]

how do you get it to start without the transponder in the key?

Doug

i bypassed my immobiliseras the alarm system i fitted has a immobiliser built in

ann's tigra is a N reg 1996 that had a transpoder in it and i bypassed that as well

Told your insurance company? 

Someone can just smash the window, get in, snap the steering lock and drive off. Doubt you would be covered.

yes i have told my insurance company
and no, no one can just jump in and snap the steering lock and drive off

i think your forgetting things tunnie
you just so wrapped up in yourself about remote start
yes you don't like it
if you don't like it, end of stop your moaning
if people want remote start let them have it
if they don't want it then they don't have to have it


the alarm system i have fitted has a immobiliser built in and is fully alarmed
my insurance company knows and ill even give you my insurance contact number etc and let you try and grass me up to my own insurance company
it don't bother me as i'm fully covered

everything i have done to both the mig and ann's tigra has been passed onto the insurance company

and thats everything before you start sayin " what about this that and th other"

thats the exhaust
the hids
everything

end of tunnie
stop your moaning and get on with other stuff