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[Dishevelled Den]

I still laugh at Kinnock falling into the surf at Brighton  

Summed up then, and now, what Labour is.  Incompetent!!

As for Cameron and Eton; yes, we have heard it all!!    But I'd sooner have someone with a fine education leading out country than some thick sod!!

...sadly your comment has more than a grain of truth to it Ms Zoom

[albitz]

A fine demonstration of this politics of envy was in the news recently.I believe it was in Kent  where local councillors/education "professionals were complaining that the local grammar schools were damaging the results from the local comprehensives ,due to the fact that parents of pupils who were bright were sending them to the Grammars and thus lowering the average at the comprehensives.Their solution of course was that the Grammars should be closed.
If they were really interested in raising the educational standards for pupils why didnt it occur to them to spend some time at the grammars to look at teaching methods etc, and find out how they get such good results.

[Dishevelled Den]

just heard Kinnock on radio 5 - awesome performance - passionate, heartfelt, honest and angry - something Brown can't project and Cameron wouldn't understand

made me remember why i voted for him back in the day 

just wish we had someone like that now 

  I hope age has brought wisdom bj :-/ :-/

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A fine demonstration of this politics of envy was in the news recently.I believe it was in Kent  where local councillors/education "professionals were complaining that the local grammar schools were damaging the results from the local comprehensives ,due to the fact that parents of pupils who were bright were sending them to the Grammars and thus lowering the average at the comprehensives.Their solution of course was that the Grammars should be closed.
If they were really interested in raising the educational standards for pupils why didnt it occur to them to spend some time at the grammars to look at teaching methods etc, and find out how they get such good results.

I went to a grammar school .............after passing the 11 plus in the early seventies.
Anybody.....rich or poor....black or white.....could go ......so long as they were capable of doing so.....in summary......... I went there on merit
The outdated anachronism.......that is Eton is exactly the opposite.....It is only available to the very wealthy....(who are often below average I.Q.......just look at the royals....)
So ...in order to go to Eton.......you need wealthy parents........merit  has very little to do with it......which is why many Old Etonians.....are much like the Harry Enfield character..."Tim...Nice but Dim.
We live in 2009........Eton should be little more than a page in a dusty history book.

[Dishevelled Den]

A fine demonstration of this politics of envy was in the news recently.I believe it was in Kent  where local councillors/education "professionals were complaining that the local grammar schools were damaging the results from the local comprehensives ,due to the fact that parents of pupils who were bright were sending them to the Grammars and thus lowering the average at the comprehensives.Their solution of course was that the Grammars should be closed.
If they were really interested in raising the educational standards for pupils why didnt it occur to them to spend some time at the grammars to look at teaching methods etc, and find out how they get such good results.

I went to a grammar school .............after passing the 11 plus in the early seventies.
Anybody.....rich or poor....black or white.....could go ......so long as they were capable of doing so.....in summary......... I went there on merit
The outdated anachronism.......that is Eton is exactly the opposite.....It is only available to the very wealthy....(who are often below average I.Q.......just look at the royals....)
So ...in order to go to Eton.......you need wealthy parents........merit  has very little to do with it......which is why many Old Etonians.....are much like the Harry Enfield character..."Tim...Nice but Dim.
We live in 2009........Eton should be little more than a page in a dusty history book.

which is why many Old Etonians.


...well I'm glad you acknowledge that some bright people made it through the 'befuddled masses'


We live in 2009........Eton should be little more than a page in a dusty history book

I must say the prevailing conditions in this country in 2009 have a lot to commend to the populace Optio

Is the final part of this statement not reminiscent of the old socialist desire to eradicate all history contrary to 'the message' - in the attempt to start from year zero - and be guided by the one any only true message from the central elite of the party?

History is ignored at our peril and to actively seek its distortion or eradication is to embark on a dangerous path.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

A fine demonstration of this politics of envy was in the news recently.I believe it was in Kent  where local councillors/education "professionals were complaining that the local grammar schools were damaging the results from the local comprehensives ,due to the fact that parents of pupils who were bright were sending them to the Grammars and thus lowering the average at the comprehensives.Their solution of course was that the Grammars should be closed.
If they were really interested in raising the educational standards for pupils why didnt it occur to them to spend some time at the grammars to look at teaching methods etc, and find out how they get such good results.

I went to a grammar school .............after passing the 11 plus in the early seventies.
Anybody.....rich or poor....black or white.....could go ......so long as they were capable of doing so.....in summary......... I went there on merit
The outdated anachronism.......that is Eton is exactly the opposite.....It is only available to the very wealthy....(who are often below average I.Q.......just look at the royals....)
So ...in order to go to Eton.......you need wealthy parents........merit  has very little to do with it......which is why many Old Etonians.....are much like the Harry Enfield character..."Tim...Nice but Dim.
We live in 2009........Eton should be little more than a page in a dusty history book.

which is why many Old Etonians.


...well I'm glad that you acknowledge that some bright people made it through the 'befuddled masses'


We live in 2009........Eton should be little more than a page in a dusty history book

I must say the prevailing conditions in this country in 2009 have a lot to commend to the populace Optio

Is the final part of this statement not reminiscent of the old socialist desire to eradicate all history contrary to 'the message' - in the attempt to start from year zero - and be guided by the one any only true message from the central elite of the party?

History is ignored at our peril and to actively seek its distortion or eradication is to embark on a dangerous path.

Some people believe that socialism .....means everybody being equal in everyway.
The same wealth......same car .....same house....painted in the same colour.....I do not believe this.
With regard to education.........I feel that everyone should be given an equal opportunity to achieve....regardless of wealth......some will prosper ......some will not........sadly ....that is life.
In my view Eton produces some of the most talentless out of touch individuals possible.

[Dishevelled Den]

Some people believe that socialism .....means everybody being equal in everyway.
The same wealth......same car .....same house....painted in the same colour.....I do not believe this.
With regard to education.........I feel that everyone should be given an equal opportunity to achieve....regardless of wealth......some will prosper ......some will not........sadly ....that is life.
In my view Eton produces some of the most talentless out of touch individuals possible.

highlight]Some people believe that socialism.....means everybody being equal in everyway.[/highlight]

Aah but it's far from it Optio as many living under the diktat of such regimes have found - All socialists are equal, only some are more equal than others

.....I do not believe this

I'm very pleased to hear that

With regard to education.........I feel that everyone should be given an equal opportunity to achieve....regardless of wealth..

I thought that the education system under the stewardship of New Labour sought to provide that very ideal, the fact that there now seems to be some doubt surely isn't the fault of the Public School system but perhaps that of the government, the DCFS and the lack of the will to learn by those given the chance to do so.

Rather, the lack of quality shown by some schools within the state system turning out a proportion of pupils who's lack of academic ability is touted as being cause for such concern that the fault can only be laid at the door of some public schools is patent nonsense.

Eton

Eton and only Eton, Optio?

[Banjax]

Aah Eton bashing, grist to the mill of those socialists who find it impossible think outside the dusty vaults of the movement.

It does follow however the well worn path of some socialists - if you don't understand, don't wish to understand, have no capacity to understand or are just intolerant enough to understand anything of such an institution, deride it.

It’s what socialism has long practiced, better to destroy that which offers an alternative message, better to be part of a movement of similar truncated thinking, better to let others decide policy for you and better to look towards their own elite of party functionaries than take the chance to stand up and be counted as an individual.

Give me Eton and the Establishment over the likes of Kinnock and his ‘Champagne Socialist’ brethren every time.

Should you which to examine how true elitism is practised, just look toward any socialist/communist/Marxist state – old or ‘new’.

yep zulu - i read animal farm when i was 13 - haunted me ever since!
Kinnock stood for what he believed, and i find some comments a bit dismaying regarding education - i reckon Kinnock would run rings around the "better" educated Cameron - i've met this attitude all my life that you're somehow a better person with a private education, funny how most of the crooks in the city seemed to benefit from this start, while its the "thick sods" who have to bail them out 

i think, if we learn anything its that rigid adherence to any principle or ideal is deeply flawed - communism or capitilism both have been found out and ironically it took capitilism to bail out communism(uniting Germany and allowing ex Soviet states to flourish) and vice versa (weren't the banks bailed out by socialism ie society paying for the collective good)
as ive said before - extreme views whether its religion, politics, environment, etc are rarely if ever the correct path - its nearly always somewhere in the middle 

[Richie London]

i do know one thing about neil kinnock, he lived in ealing in a big house round the corner from out pub. and his daughter was definatly not as pure as the driven snow, as they say   

[Banjax]

i do know one thing about neil kinnock, he lived in ealing in a big house round the corner from out pub. and his daughter was definatly not as pure as the driven snow, as they say   

and she speaks so highly of you, Richie 

[Richie London]

i do know one thing about neil kinnock, he lived in ealing in a big house round the corner from out pub. and his daughter was definatly not as pure as the driven snow, as they say   

and she speaks so highly of you, Richie 

i used to see her in the pub but never actually spoke to her, but i did hear all the stories 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

George Orwell ....knew a thing or two about the human condition.
Whatever political system we have in place.....the darker side of "human nature".....will become apparent.....sadly.

[Dishevelled Den]

yep zulu - i read animal farm when i was 13 - haunted me ever since!
Kinnock stood for what he believed, and i find some comments a bit dismaying regarding education - i reckon Kinnock would run rings around the "better" educated Cameron - i've met this attitude all my life that you're somehow a better person with a private education, funny how most of the crooks in the city seemed to benefit from this start, while its the "thick sods" who have to bail them out 

i think, if we learn anything its that rigid adherence to any principle or ideal is deeply flawed - communism or capitilism both have been found out and ironically it took capitilism to bail out communism(uniting Germany and allowing ex Soviet states to flourish) and vice versa (weren't the banks bailed out by socialism ie society paying for the collective good)
as ive said before - extreme views whether its religion, politics, environment, etc are rarely if ever the correct path - its nearly always somewhere in the middle 

how most of the crooks in the city seemed to benefit from this start, while its the "thick sods" who have to bail them out 



...so beloved by the previous Chancellor, and not forgetting of course, that many of those 'crooks' hailed from circumstances far removed from the lofty regions of the Establishment – rather, 'ordinary' people who had a talent for wheeling and dealing rather than having a history with the 'elite of this land'


 reckon Kinnock would run rings around the "better" educated Cameron

...but would there be any substance to his rhetoric - don't forget he was junked by the party following his abysmal performance at the time.


I'll agree with most of your final paragraph.

[Pitchfork]

I enjoyed my time at Eaton!!

Made gearboxes didn't they?

At least someone got the joke!