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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I,m not so sure about the self belief tbh ,Zulu.I think he may be just hoping he can bullsh1t his way through each day as it arrives.He is way out of his depth and I suspect he knows it.His speeches always consist of him reciting or reading a long list of statisitics  because its one of the few things he is capable of doing,and a long list of statistics are a hard thing to argue with as you can make them say just about anything you want to.He is being proected from the electorate and reality in general because he has no way at all of dealing with them.
I dont know if you remember the Brian Walden programme which used to be on ITV at Sunday lunchtime in the 80,s (world at one ??).He used to savage politicians,he even had Maggie completely stuck for an answer once or twice.i would loved to have seen him let loose on Bliar and Brown,He could smell bullsh1t from 100 yards,he would have left them both ready for a home for the bewildered.

....used to listen to him with awe 8-) 8-)

Weekend World... I used to work on that.

Thats the one. ..........Nantucket sleighride by Mountain was the theme music  iirc.Bwian Walden was brilliant,made Paxman look like a poodle.

yes ............that sounds like a lisp.

[albitz]

yep. .....did wonder if his surname was actually Ralden,would have been difficult to tell. ............he knew how to take a pompous politician apart at the seams though.Much missed is old Bwian.

[Banjax]

brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor - unfortunately the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....now are all the people slagging off brown because of a global crisis? what was it DC said before it hit? or Georgie O for that matter? precisely nothing so i didn't see the tories come out with any credit - you could argue that had we been ruled by DC we'd be in a worse mess as Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan 

the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway 

[albitz]

He is hailed as an economic genius by his sycophantic toadies and people who either have an agenda or dont have a clue what they are talking about.
As I have said before,I wonder if you will still think he,s a genius when you go to start collecting your pension and realise he has nicked it for his hair brained public spending schemes.
One example for me of the mess created by him and his kind is the fact the through my council tax alone I pay £300 pa into public sector pension funds.Because of all the tax increases under this shower I can no longer afford to pay £300 pa into my own personal pension fund.

[Dishevelled Den]

It's very plain to see that his legacy will be an unmitigated disaster for the citizens of this nation.

His stewardship of the economy as Chancellor and of the nation as Premier has been an object lesson in gross incompetence, fuelled by deluded self-belief all finished off by thinking, so insular, it can only be calibrated on the micro level.

................and if we have ....as seems likely.......a change of government next year.......we get little Georgie Osborne...........in charge of finance......
Still.....it's not all bad news.....as I feel sure that he knows exactly how much a bottle of champagne and a tin of caviar cost.....

....I'm hardly gratified by that prospect, believe me - I don't know who'll be capable at clearing up the mess GB has left us in.

I'll disregard your final comments, although they do merit a 

[Dishevelled Den]

brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor - unfortunately the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....now are all the people slagging off brown because of a global crisis? what was it DC said before it hit? or Georgie O for that matter? precisely nothing so i didn't see the tories come out with any credit - you could argue that had we been ruled by DC we'd be in a worse mess as Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan 

the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway 

brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor

...what the frigg are you smoking bj :-? :-?


the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....

....thanks to the  foresight of this 'well respected' man the economic structure within this country all but collapsed, being built as a result of the availability of credit and the utter dependence on the London based financial sector for economic growth and stability - to the exclusion of manufacturing and other core industries.


Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan


...how's that worked out for you bj, has NR really excelled itself in the aftermath by 'looking after' its existing customer base and ensuring that they were given as much help as possible, the jury’s out on that one?

As for the remaining banks, it seems that it's back to business as usual due to a total lack of will and any form of clear vision or sensible regulation provided by GB and the Treasury.

That has been the trouble all along with him, all talk - in tortured technical language - and no bloody action in basic practical measures.


the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway


...although this doesn't merit a comment, Major is yesterdays man. GB and his cohorts have been running things for nearly 12 years - and what do we have to show for it, a country driven to brink of financial ruin where authority seems to exist to cause as much inconvenience to the citizenry as possible through a plethora of rules and regulations, and a government bankrupt of ideas doing everything but govern competently?

Bah

[Auto Addict]

There are going to be some very hard times ahead.

I note Labour do this EVERY time they get in!

The voting public will never learn!

[Banjax]

brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor - unfortunately the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....now are all the people slagging off brown because of a global crisis? what was it DC said before it hit? or Georgie O for that matter? precisely nothing so i didn't see the tories come out with any credit - you could argue that had we been ruled by DC we'd be in a worse mess as Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan 

the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway 

brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor

...what the frigg are you smoking bj :-? :-?


the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....

....thanks to the  foresight of this 'well respected' man the economic structure within this country all but collapsed, being built as a result of the availability of credit and the utter dependence on the London based financial sector for economic growth and stability - to the exclusion of manufacturing and other core industries.


Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan


...how's that worked out for you bj, has NR really excelled itself in the aftermath by 'looking after' its existing customer base and ensuring that they were given as much help as possible, the jury’s out on that one?

As for the remaining banks, it seems that it's back to business as usual due to a total lack of will and any form of clear vision or sensible regulation provided by GB and the Treasury.

That has been the trouble all along with him, all talk - in tortured technical language - and no bloody action in basic practical measures.


the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway


...although this doesn't merit a comment, Major is yesterdays man. GB and his cohorts have been running things for nearly 12 years - and what do we have to show for it, a country driven to brink of financial ruin where authority seems to exist to cause as much inconvenience to the citizenry as possible through a plethora of rules and regulations, and a government bankrupt of ideas doing everything but govern competently?

Bah

believe it or not, zulu, Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK

i don't know how much clearer the terms global economic crisis can be - are you saying that Brown controls the planets economy?

for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment - believe me - it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year 


i don't pretend that it's a tough call to believe me on this, in any case i don't vote labour so why i spend time defending brown is beyond me - he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect - happens to every government.

i'll give you a prediction - the tories scrape into power (perhaps even a hung parliament) DC serves one term where unemployment goes through the roof and public services are destroyed. he'll be out on his ear after one term and labour be back in again.

trouble is, people have forgotten what a disaster the tories in power are - everyone seems to go all misty-eyed over Thatch. maybe the best thing is a tory government - seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were, trouble with the tories is they're made up of far too many grasping c's. DC is deeply resented by the old guard in the party as far too centrist, once they've got power the mask'll slip and the games will begin - they're not interested in the country- just their own small part of it 


but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck tho 

[waspy]

There are going to be some very hard times ahead.

I note Labour do this EVERY time they get in!

The voting public will never learn!

Agreed

[Martin_1962]

I always thought that Ken Clark was more capable as a chancellor

As to the ability the two MPs who seem to understand the economy - neither will get to be chancellor, one is in Osborne party, the other is LD.

[waspy]

Politics

[Dishevelled Den]

believe it or not, zulu, Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK

i don't know how much clearer the terms global economic crisis can be - are you saying that Brown controls the planets economy?

for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment - believe me - it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year 


i don't pretend that it's a tough call to believe me on this, in any case i don't vote labour so why i spend time defending brown is beyond me - he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect - happens to every government.

i'll give you a prediction - the tories scrape into power (perhaps even a hung parliament) DC serves one term where unemployment goes through the roof and public services are destroyed. he'll be out on his ear after one term and labour be back in again.

trouble is, people have forgotten what a disaster the tories in power are - everyone seems to go all misty-eyed over Thatch. maybe the best thing is a tory government - seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were, trouble with the tories is they're made up of far too many grasping c's. DC is deeply resented by the old guard in the party as far too centrist, once they've got power the mask'll slip and the games will begin - they're not interested in the country- just their own small part of it 

]but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck the

 Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK


...and what does that tell you bj, to me it suggests that the world is quite unaware of his abysmal record on the domestic front.  Perhaps those fans of his would have a different viewpoint if they were to live here and be subject to his leadership?


 Brown controls the planets economy

..of course not but he is supposed to have control of this economy and where are we as a result?


for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment -

...based on what bj, questionable easy credit and utter dependence on a centralised poorly regulated financial sector that seemed to have free reign to do what it liked?

it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year 

....but they were not bj and haven't been for nearly 12 years so the present mess is wholly down to the former Chancellor and present Premier.


he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect


....I would think that people need change because of the shambles the present and former administration has left this country in.  The world is far from being perfect - but more importantly - neither is this country

seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were,

.....whist we should be guided by history, to continually refer to the past prevents us from addressing the present with objectivity.  The last 12 years will be and should be remembered as the time when government rode roughshod over democracy and civil liberties and when warmongers and celebrity seekers have created a situation that has polarised the nation

but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck the

.......you should do bj considering the grant that Scotland receives from Westminster, or are you suggesting that Scotland would be capable of existing as an independent nation thereby not requiring the present financial arrangement with the Treasury?

Good luck with that one bj, I don't think true independence is a serious consideration at the moment and if you're depending on Alex Salmond to deliver a workable national administration for Scotland devoid of financial help from the British taxpayer Christ help you.

[Dishevelled Den]

Politics

Your'e right enough there Pete, our present political system can't help but make any sane person sick

[Dishevelled Den]

For those members who still regard GB as having been an able Chancellor and capable Premier;



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/king-accuses-bankers-of-playing-with-fire-1806273.html


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/andrew-grice/andrew-grice-why-the-city-need-not-fear-a-windfall-tax-1806254.html

[Banjax]

believe it or not, zulu, Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK

i don't know how much clearer the terms global economic crisis can be - are you saying that Brown controls the planets economy?

for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment - believe me - it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year 


i don't pretend that it's a tough call to believe me on this, in any case i don't vote labour so why i spend time defending brown is beyond me - he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect - happens to every government.

i'll give you a prediction - the tories scrape into power (perhaps even a hung parliament) DC serves one term where unemployment goes through the roof and public services are destroyed. he'll be out on his ear after one term and labour be back in again.

trouble is, people have forgotten what a disaster the tories in power are - everyone seems to go all misty-eyed over Thatch. maybe the best thing is a tory government - seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were, trouble with the tories is they're made up of far too many grasping c's. DC is deeply resented by the old guard in the party as far too centrist, once they've got power the mask'll slip and the games will begin - they're not interested in the country- just their own small part of it 

]but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck the

 Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK


...and what does that tell you bj, to me it suggests that the world is quite unaware of his abysmal record on the domestic front.  Perhaps those fans of his would have a different viewpoint if they were to live here and be subject to his leadership?


 Brown controls the planets economy

..of course not but he is supposed to have control of this economy and where are we as a result?


for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment -

...based on what bj, questionable easy credit and utter dependence on a centralised poorly regulated financial sector that seemed to have free reign to do what it liked?

it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year 

....but they were not bj and haven't been for nearly 12 years so the present mess is wholly down to the former Chancellor and present Premier.


he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect


....I would think that people need change because of the shambles the present and former administration has left this country in.  The world is far from being perfect - but more importantly - neither is this country

seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were,

.....whist we should be guided by history, to continually refer to the past prevents us from addressing the present with objectivity.  The last 12 years will be and should be remembered as the time when government rode roughshod over democracy and civil liberties and when warmongers and celebrity seekers have created a situation that has polarised the nation

but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck the

.......you should do bj considering the grant that Scotland receives from Westminster, or are you suggesting that Scotland would be capable of existing as an independent nation thereby not requiring the present financial arrangement with the Treasury?

Good luck with that one bj, I don't think true independence is a serious consideration at the moment and if you're depending on Alex Salmond to deliver a workable national administration for Scotland devoid of financial help from the British taxpayer Christ help you.

[/highlight]


i don't know Zulu, small, independent oil producing countries seem to do OK so why Scotland needs the rest of the UK is beyond me and always has been - the tories, quite rightly, will never be elected in Scotland for the forseeable future - you don't destroy heavy industry, manufacturing, shipbuilding and mining and get away with dessimating communities for generations without a bit of payback - of course, the irony is that we didn't even vote tory and yet were still ruled by them, and boy did they not give a monkeys reasoning that they could do what they liked with Scotlands resources, impose the poll tax on us as guinea pigs and it would have no effect whatsoever on them being reelected - so yes, as we are diametrically opposed politically i guess independence would be better.

if you think we're such a drain, then why doesn't Labour or the Tories crave independence from us? is it because, despite the popular line, we actually contribute more than we get back?