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[Dishevelled Den]

So what would be so wrong with world government?? Countries would still have their own leader but be part of a bigger contigous picture. There would be an end to warfare (unless it was against aliens)and its wasted billions every year and an end to hunger At the moment we have an absolutely toothless UN that in most instances cannot even agree to make a resolution against a warmongering or dangerous country.
Just think about it. People object to spending a few billions to protect our earth from a perceived or imaginary warming threat but no one seems to rail against the vast , absolutely VAST waste of money on weaponry and war every year of all of you are lives.

V

So what would be so wrong with world government?? Countries would still have their own leader but be part of a bigger contigous picture.

Everything V.

There is a vast difference between the utopian ideal of having a world united under one government and the practical realization that this could never be expected to work in any reasonable manner.

I thought that similar arrangements were in place already with bodies such as the UN and the EU, there doesn't seem much common consensus towards togetherness at the moment despite the vast amounts of finance each of these two examples require to function.


There would be an end to warfare (unless it was against aliens)and its wasted billions every year and an end to hunger

...there will never be an end to war V - a great ideal but never achieavable due to the variable degree of human nature.

We, each and every one, have our own individual view of how we sit in the social structure of this planet - and how we want to experience that placement to our satisfaction – and also in our hopes for our individual future.

The notion of a world order/government can rapidly sour when one considers how dissenters to the new arrangements would have to be dealt with.  I would suggest that any such dissent or objection would be very harshly attended to, should they not be then overall control would be lost.

The new world order would be obliged to be pejorative and dictatorial to enforce a common will among the many disparate nations, and peoples, of the world – it’s the only way it would work.

I don’t know about you V but I’m not prepared to give up my individual freedoms just to satisfy the misguided desire for a world united under the governance of people who have an agenda that may be far removed from the benevolent.

[threppence]

So what would be so wrong with world government?? Countries would still have their own leader but be part of a bigger contigous picture. There would be an end to warfare (unless it was against aliens)and its wasted billions every year and an end to hunger At the moment we have an absolutely toothless UN that in most instances cannot even agree to make a resolution against a warmongering or dangerous country.
Just think about it. People object to spending a few billions to protect our earth from a perceived or imaginary warming threat but no one seems to rail against the vast , absolutely VAST waste of money on weaponry and war every year of all of you are lives.

V

So what would be so wrong with world government?? Countries would still have their own leader but be part of a bigger contigous picture.

Everything V.

There is a vast difference between the utopian ideal of having a world united under one government and the practical realization that this could never be expected to work in any reasonable manner.

I thought that similar arrangements were in place already with bodies such as the UN and the EU, there doesn't seem much common consensus towards togetherness at the moment despite the vast amounts of finance each of these two examples reguire to function.


There would be an end to warfare (unless it was against aliens)and its wasted billions every year and an end to hunger

...there will never be an end to war V - a great ideal but never achieavable due to the variable degree of human nature.

We, each and every one, have our own individual view of how we sit in the social structure of this planet - and how we want to experience that placement to our satisfaction [ch8211] and also in our hopes for our individual future.

The notion of a world order/government can rapidly sour when one considers how dissenters to the new arrangements would have to be dealt with.  I would suggest that any such dissent or objection would be very harshly attended to, should they not be then overall control would be lost.

The new world order would be obliged to be pejorative and dictatorial to enforce a common will among the many disparate nations, and peoples, of the world [ch8211] it[ch8217]s the only way it would work.

I don[ch8217]t know about you V but I[ch8217]m not prepared to give up my individual freedoms just to satisfy the misguided desire for a world united under the governance of people who have an agenda that may be far removed from the benevolent.

What if nobody joined the armed forces,at all,anywhere.

[Dishevelled Den]

What if nobody joined the armed forces,at all,anywhere.

The world would be in turmoil T - just because there was an absence of armed forces it doesn't follow that there would be an absence of violence or the need to protect ourselves from the threat, or otherwise, of it

[Lizzie_Zoom]

So what would be so wrong with world government?? Countries would still have their own leader but be part of a bigger contigous picture. There would be an end to warfare (unless it was against aliens)and its wasted billions every year and an end to hunger At the moment we have an absolutely toothless UN that in most instances cannot even agree to make a resolution against a warmongering or dangerous country.
Just think about it. People object to spending a few billions to protect our earth from a perceived or imaginary warming threat but no one seems to rail against the vast , absolutely VAST waste of money on weaponry and war every year of all of you are lives.

V

So what would be so wrong with world government?? Countries would still have their own leader but be part of a bigger contigous picture.

Everything V.

There is a vast difference between the utopian ideal of having a world united under one government and the practical realization that this could never be expected to work in any reasonable manner.

I thought that similar arrangements were in place already with bodies such as the UN and the EU, there doesn't seem much common consensus towards togetherness at the moment despite the vast amounts of finance each of these two examples reguire to function.



There would be an end to warfare (unless it was against aliens)and its wasted billions every year and an end to hunger

r be an end to war V - a great ideal but never achieavable [/u][/highlvariable degree of human nature.

We, each and every one, have our own individual view of how we sit in the social structure of this planet - and how we want to experience that placement to our satisfaction – and also in our hopes for our individual future.

The notion of a world order/government can rapidly sour when one considers how dissenters to the new arrangements would have to be dealt with.  I would suggest that any such dissent or objection would be very harshly attended to, should they not be then overall control would be lost.

The new world order would be obliged to be pejorative and dictatorial to enforce a common will among the many disparate nations, and peoples, of the world – it’s the only way it would work.

I don’t know about you V but I’m not prepared to give up my individual freedoms just to satisfy the misguided desire for a world united under the governance of people who have an agenda that may be far removed from the benevolent.

What if nobody joined the armed forces,at all,anywhere.

Where men are, war is, unless controlled by authority and the common soldier, but even then there will be war to protect perceived liberties, freedoms, rights and life its self, and against aggressors.

As my favourite philosopher stated:

,".......during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in a condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man , against every man.  For WARRE, consisteth not in Battell onely, or the act of fighting; but in a tract of time, wherein the Will to contend by Battell is sufficiently known: and therefore the notion of Time, is to be considered in the nature of Warre; as it is in the nature of Weather.  Hobbes, T. Leviathan Penguin (1651) pp.185 & 186


Or put another way:  "Without a ‘common power’ which “keeps them all in awe” as Hobbes proposed risks continual “warre”  with man against man, but in between such times there is peace.  During this no development of mans true worth can transpire, with “continual feare and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore , nasty, brutish, and short” Hobbes, T. Leviathan Penguin (1651) p. 186


Therefore I believe that the universal soldier will have to exist for many centuries to come, if not for eternity.

[Varche]

Dissent?! There wouldn't be any dissent. We would just turn up at the feeding machines each day, put in our Biometric Id card and non dissenters would successfully get their muesli bar and a drink assuming they had done a days work.

As for everyone having a view of where they sit in the social structure. So long as X factor is on each week and the machines kept churning out muesli bars (chocolate flavour on Sundays) then most - 99%+ wouldn't give a damn.

simples 

[threppence]

So what would be so wrong with world government?? Countries would still have their own leader but be part of a bigger contigous picture. There would be an end to warfare (unless it was against aliens)and its wasted billions every year and an end to hunger At the moment we have an absolutely toothless UN that in most instances cannot even agree to make a resolution against a warmongering or dangerous country.
Just think about it. People object to spending a few billions to protect our earth from a perceived or imaginary warming threat but no one seems to rail against the vast , absolutely VAST waste of money on weaponry and war every year of all of you are lives.

V

So what would be so wrong with world government?? Countries would still have their own leader but be part of a bigger contigous picture.

Everything V.

There is a vast difference between the utopian ideal of having a world united under one government and the practical realization that this could never be expected to work in any reasonable manner.

I thought that similar arrangements were in place already with bodies such as the UN and the EU, there doesn't seem much common consensus towards togetherness at the moment despite the vast amounts of finance each of these two examples reguire to function.



There would be an end to warfare (unless it was against aliens)and its wasted billions every year and an end to hunger

r be an end to war V - a great ideal but never achieavable [/u][/highlvariable degree of human nature.

We, each and every one, have our own individual view of how we sit in the social structure of this planet - and how we want to experience that placement to our satisfaction [ch8211] and also in our hopes for our individual future.

The notion of a world order/government can rapidly sour when one considers how dissenters to the new arrangements would have to be dealt with.  I would suggest that any such dissent or objection would be very harshly attended to, should they not be then overall control would be lost.

The new world order would be obliged to be pejorative and dictatorial to enforce a common will among the many disparate nations, and peoples, of the world [ch8211] it[ch8217]s the only way it would work.

I don[ch8217]t know about you V but I[ch8217]m not prepared to give up my individual freedoms just to satisfy the misguided desire for a world united under the governance of people who have an agenda that may be far removed from the benevolent.

What if nobody joined the armed forces,at all,anywhere.

Where men are, war is, unless controlled by authority and the common soldier, but even then there will be war to protect perceived liberties, freedoms, rights and life its self, and against aggressors.

As my favourite philosopher stated:

,".......during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in a condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man , against every man.  For WARRE, consisteth not in Battell onely, or the act of fighting; but in a tract of time, wherein the Will to contend by Battell is sufficiently known: and therefore the notion of Time, is to be considered in the nature of Warre; as it is in the nature of Weather.  Hobbes, T. Leviathan Penguin (1651) pp.185 & 186


Or put another way:  "Without a [ch8216]common power[ch8217] which [ch8220]keeps them all in awe[ch8221] as Hobbes proposed risks continual [ch8220]warre[ch8221]  with man against man, but in between such times there is peace.  During this no development of mans true worth can transpire, with [ch8220]continual feare and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore , nasty, brutish, and short[ch8221] Hobbes, T. Leviathan Penguin (1651) p. 186


Therefore I believe that the universal soldier will have to exist for many centuries to come, if not for eternity.

When it all boils down to it, forget our large brains, opposable digits and technological advancement we are as animals, squabbling for breeding rights, food, and territorial advantage.BUT ON HUGE GLOBAL SCALE!!!

Ho Hum !!  Whens the X-factor on, and who stole my meusli bar!!!.

[Dishevelled Den]

Dissent?! There wouldn't be any dissent. We would just turn up at the feeding machines each day, put in our Biometric Id card and non dissenters would successfully get their muesli bar and a drink assuming they had done a days work.

As for everyone having a view of where they sit in the social structure. So long as X factor is on each week and the machines kept churning out muesli bars (chocolate flavour on Sundays) then most - 99%+ wouldn't give a damn.

simples 

Dissent?! There wouldn't be any dissent. We would just turn up at the feeding machines each day, put in our Biometric Id card


...ultimately V that very scenario isn't an unreasonable assertion.  Don't forget, Pol Pot tried to achieve a similar result in Cambodia, by slightly different means of course, but nonetheless the overall desire was to have a subservient populace totally dependant for existence on the governing elite.


   So long as X factor is on each week and the machines kept churning out muesli bars (chocolate flavour on Sundays) then most - 99%+ wouldn't give a damn.

....and that, V, is one of the many facilitators currently being depended upon to create the circumstances that will allow this change to slip past a stupefied populace.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Dissent?! There wouldn't be any dissent. We would just turn up at the feeding machines each day, put in our Biometric Id card and non dissenters would successfully get their muesli bar and a drink assuming they had done a days work.

As for everyone having a view of where they sit in the social structure. So long as X factor is on each week and the machines kept churning out muesli bars (chocolate flavour on Sundays) then most - 99%+ wouldn't give a damn.

simples 

I have tried to argue against your point of view Varche, hoping that in fact the individual self will always look after their own interests when they come under threat.

However Varche, it pains me to say, that I think you are absolutely right!! 

If these types of threads here on the OOF are to go by, given they cover a cross represenatative slice of human life, we have just 10 members posting their comments and showing some form of interest in Nick's original message. 

I really do dispair at times on here, as no doubt some of you do as well, and wonder why we bother!  All right not everyone can stomach politics, but surely there are more who want to express their concerns, annoyance, pure anger, etc, as rightly Nick does on environmental issues??

Perhaps no eh?  Providing Corrie, X factor, or Deal or No Deal is on the world's ok?

Give me strength!!

Rant over?  NO!!  More to come, unless I give up trying to contribute to this site, which in the mood I'm in is a distinct possibility!!

[Dishevelled Den]

Dissent?! There wouldn't be any dissent. We would just turn up at the feeding machines each day, put in our Biometric Id card and non dissenters would successfully get their muesli bar and a drink assuming they had done a days work.

As for everyone having a view of where they sit in the social structure. So long as X factor is on each week and the machines kept churning out muesli bars (chocolate flavour on Sundays) then most - 99%+ wouldn't give a damn.

simples 

I have tried to argue against your point of view Varche, hoping that in fact the individual self will always look after their own interests when they come under threat.

However Varche, it pains me to say, that I think you are absolutely right!! 

If these types of threads here on the OOF are to go by, given they cover a cross represenatative slice of human life, we have just 10 members posting their comments and showing some form of interest in Nick's original message. 

I really do dispair at times on here, as no doubt some of you do as well, and wonder why we bother!  All right not everyone can stomach politics, but surely there are more who want to express their concerns, annoyance, pure anger, etc, as rightly Nick does on environmental issues??

Perhaps no eh?  Providing Corrie, X factor, or Deal or No Deal is on the world's ok?

Give me strength!!

Rant over?  NO!!  More to come, unless I give up trying to contribute to this site, which in the mood I'm in is a distinct possibility!!

....on the first part Ms Zoom - splendid, on the second - please put that thought from your mind

[Banjax]

this maybe sums up your feelings Lizzie 
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bX6YYkIbp0[/media]

Post office clerks put up signs saying position closed
And secretaries turn off typewriters and put on their coats
Janitors padlock the gates
For security guards to patrol
And bachelors phone up their friends for a drink
While the married ones turn on a chat show

And they'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

Gentlemen time please, you know we can't serve anymore
Now the traffic lights change to stop, when there's nothing to go
And by five o'clock everything's dead
And every third car is a cab
And ignorant people sleep in their beds
Like the doped white mice in the college lab

Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before

And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

Telephone exchanges click while there's nobody there
The Martians could land in the carpark and no one would care
Close-circuit cameras in department stores shoot the same video every day
And the stars of these films neither die nor get killed
Just survive constant action replay

Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before

And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

Bill hoardings advertise products that nobody needs
While angry from Manchester writes to complain about
All the repeats on T.V.
And computer terminals report some gains
On the values of copper and tin
While American businessmen snap up Van Goghs
For the price of a hospital wing

Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before
Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
They'll burn down the synagogues at six o'clock
And we'll all go along like before

And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

[albitz]

Thats got me annoyed BJ,Im trying to remember the name of the band but I cant for some reason.
Scottish,lead singer with Elvis sideburns...............who were they ? :-/

[threppence]

Del Amitri ,Albs

[Lizzie_Zoom]

this maybe sums up your feelings Lizzie 
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bX6YYkIbp0[/media]

Post office clerks put up signs saying position closed
And secretaries turn off typewriters and put on their coats
Janitors padlock the gates
For security guards to patrol
And bachelors phone up their friends for a drink
While the married ones turn on a chat show

And they'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

Gentlemen time please, you know we can't serve anymore
Now the traffic lights change to stop, when there's nothing to go
And by five o'clock everything's dead
And every third car is a cab
And ignorant people sleep in their beds
Like the doped white mice in the college lab

Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before

And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

Telephone exchanges click while there's nobody there
The Martians could land in the carpark and no one would care
Close-circuit cameras in department stores shoot the same video every day
And the stars of these films neither die nor get killed
Just survive constant action replay

Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before

And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

Bill hoardings advertise products that nobody needs
While angry from Manchester writes to complain about
All the repeats on T.V.
And computer terminals report some gains
On the values of copper and tin
While American businessmen snap up Van Goghs
For the price of a hospital wing

Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before
Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
They'll burn down the synagogues at six o'clock
And we'll all go along like before

And we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow

Good one BJ!!

I remember that song well, and yes it does sum up my feelings at the moment

[albitz]

Thankyou,I wouldnt have slept tonight.