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[Pitchfork]

I believe that the age limit for buying tobacco products should be raised to 21,and there should be very harsh penalties for shops etc, who break the rules.I also think there could be a good case for doing the same thing with alcohol.
Most people who smoke start young,if they havent started at 21 most wont start at all imo.

Problem is, teenage kids will meddle with something. You only have to look at some areas in the US where they are draconian in pursuing under-age drinking - drugs take its' place. Whatever is easiest to get hold of.

I don't believe a large proportion of teenagers who drink end up having their lives ruined by it, especially if their parents are sensible about introducing them to drinking alcohol in moderation. I would wager that proportion is higher for drugs but, unlike the government, I would prefer to see scientific evidence before making such sweeping statements.

I also don't believe classification of drugs makes the slightest difference to anybody in the real world. Does a drug user have a bad day and decide it's time to make the transition from class C to class B? I don't think so. I reckon they go from substance to substance depending on what's available and what their peers are using.

The big story here is that it has highlighted what I feel has been endemic in this government for years. A total contempt for unbiased advice from the scientific / expert community in favour of making policy up according to their own prejudices and mistaken beliefs.

It has been happening in far more important areas than pot smoking too. "Climate change", energy supply, schools, the NHS, policing..... all in a mess because ministers (who are expert in nothing but canvassing public support) are "winging it".

Kevin

You could well be out of the frying-pan into the fire if you think that scientists/experts are necessarily unbiased.

This rot of serving self-interest is VERY far-reaching (at least in our UK society). :'(

Where I agree that all experts are not necessarily unbiased, but I fail to see what Prof Nutt would have to gain by his report.  He has looked more 'favourably' at an illegal industry over the rich alcohol and tobacco industries.  He has also placed himself very much in the spotlight which could bring him unwanted attention.  I would actually go as far to say that he has been brave to speak out as he has.

To accuse him of being biased, just because you do not agree with his report sounds like the same 'head in the sand' tactics of the government. I would be surprised if any of them would even know the difference between a class B like cannabis or a class A like heorin.  People have been conditioned for many years to believe that 'all drugs are bad' and if you take any of them you are going to end up a junkie out robbing old ladies.   This is not the case, but some people are so stubborn with ignorance that they will dismiss anything to the contrary.

I've no intention of taking sides in the Nutt/Gov barny, it's just that having asked for advice from the scientific community, one then needs to confirm its validity in the context of its scrutiny (harm to human bodies in this case I would suggest) then amalgamate that advice with other relevant factors such as impact on commerce, crime, operation of hazardous machinery etc. some of which is well outside the expertise of those self-same scientists.

It is also relevant to consider how long a drug has had its status.  Alcohol and tobacco have been regularly consumped for many decades and would probably need to be re-classified gradually to prevent adverse reactions from those who are dependent on them.  In fact steadily-increasing taxation IS progressively putting these two outside of people's reach.

What message is my poppy sending out in your view PF?

I think that's the opium thing .

You got it, but who noticed the other pun in my posting??

[HolyCount]

I believe that the age limit for buying tobacco products should be raised to 21,and there should be very harsh penalties for shops etc, who break the rules.I also think there could be a good case for doing the same thing with alcohol.
Most people who smoke start young,if they havent started at 21 most wont start at all imo.

Problem is, teenage kids will meddle with something. You only have to look at some areas in the US where they are draconian in pursuing under-age drinking - drugs take its' place. Whatever is easiest to get hold of.

I don't believe a large proportion of teenagers who drink end up having their lives ruined by it, especially if their parents are sensible about introducing them to drinking alcohol in moderation. I would wager that proportion is higher for drugs but, unlike the government, I would prefer to see scientific evidence before making such sweeping statements.

I also don't believe classification of drugs makes the slightest difference to anybody in the real world. Does a drug user have a bad day and decide it's time to make the transition from class C to class B? I don't think so. I reckon they go from substance to substance depending on what's available and what their peers are using.

The big story here is that it has highlighted what I feel has been endemic in this government for years. A total contempt for unbiased advice from the scientific / expert community in favour of making policy up according to their own prejudices and mistaken beliefs.

It has been happening in far more important areas than pot smoking too. "Climate change", energy supply, schools, the NHS, policing..... all in a mess because ministers (who are expert in nothing but canvassing public support) are "winging it".

Kevin

You could well be out of the frying-pan into the fire if you think that scientists/experts are necessarily unbiased.

This rot of serving self-interest is VERY far-reaching (at least in our UK society). :'(

Where I agree that all experts are not necessarily unbiased, but I fail to see what Prof Nutt would have to gain by his report.  He has looked more 'favourably' at an illegal industry over the rich alcohol and tobacco industries.  He has also placed himself very much in the spotlight which could bring him unwanted attention.  I would actually go as far to say that he has been brave to speak out as he has.

To accuse him of being biased, just because you do not agree with his report sounds like the same 'head in the sand' tactics of the government. I would be surprised if any of them would even know the difference between a class B like cannabis or a class A like heorin.  People have been conditioned for many years to believe that 'all drugs are bad' and if you take any of them you are going to end up a junkie out robbing old ladies.   This is not the case, but some people are so stubborn with ignorance that they will dismiss anything to the contrary.

I've no intention of taking sides in the Nutt/Gov barny, it's just that having asked for advice from the scientific community, one then needs to confirm its validity in the context of its scrutiny (harm to human bodies in this case I would suggest) then amalgamate that advice with other relevant factors such as impact on commerce, crime, operation of hazardous machinery etc. some of which is well outside the expertise of those self-same scientists.

It is also relevant to consider how long a drug has had its status.  Alcohol and tobacco have been regularly consumped for many decades and would probably need to be re-classified gradually to prevent adverse reactions from those who are dependent on them.  In fact steadily-increasing taxation IS progressively putting these two outside of people's reach.

What message is my poppy sending out in your view PF?

I think that's the opium thing .

You got it, but who noticed the other pun in my posting??

That would be the hash up I reckon -- but maybe a bit too obvious :-?

[Dishevelled Den]

I think that's the opium thing .

You got it, but who noticed the other pun in my posting??[/quote]


Have just noticed the other one PF - very good

[Pitchfork]

Praise be..................
It's all done with speed & ease!!

[Dishevelled Den]

Praise be..................
It's all done with speed & ease!!

Indeed so PF, I'm too old, jaded, bitter and twisted to do much subtlety nowadays