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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

where do you people get this stuff???  aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work

Get real. No one's exploiting a mother's grief. She made the valid point that she had to listen to a coroner explaining how her son bled to death because he did not get timely evacuation and she claims, with some justification, that there is a shortage of helicopters in the field because Mr Tightwad won't equip our troops properly.

No doubt if this story had been reported in The Guardian, it would have met your approval. 

More likely to be balanced and objective perhaps.......rather than the venom and bile that comes from the Sun and the Daily Mail...

[Dishevelled Den]

I accept that Gordon Brown will not go down in history ......as a   great Prime Minister....I will leave that honour to Clement Attlee....... ::)and Benjamin Disraeli.....

However.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
He is not a showman.........and may well be socially inept......He is not an actor like Tony Blair...

The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy....(because they can).......shame on them....perhaps.....for a novelty they could try their hand at some objective journalism instead...... :-/ :-/ :-/

.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.


I would disagree with you on that Opti.  Historical evidence suggests that he is much more comfortable working behind the scenes hatching convoluted plots to achieve his goal – and getting trusted aides to carry out his wishes.

He seems to be incapable of dealing with criticism and reverts to an overbearing and abusive default when challenged.  He seems to have a highly compartmentalised emotional structure which results in the need to control every aspect of his involvement in any matter.

In short he is quite unsuitable to be a national leader.


The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy


I would tend to agree with you on that Opti.  The Sun has nailed its colours fairly firmly to the mast.

[albitz]

It astounds me how anyone could claim the Gaurdian to be balanced and objective.It is completely biased towards the left,just as The Mail is biased to the right.And you really shouldnt knock the Sun - BJ and Optimist,The Sun and its proprietor have been responsible for the election of this shower that you love so much in the last 3 elections.

[Kevin Wood]

He seems to be incapable of dealing with criticism and reverts to an overbearing and abusive default when challenged.  He seems to have a highly compartmentalised emotional structure which results on the need to control every aspect of his involvement in any matter.

Agreed. And what better evidence of that than the transcript of his phone call to the mother? (assuming it's accurate)

If ever there was a time to shut the break up and eat a bit of humble pie that was it but no. Anyone would have thought he was calling Jeremy Paxman.

Kevin

[Dishevelled Den]

where do you people get this stuff???  aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work

Get real. No one's exploiting a mother's grief. She made the valid point that she had to listen to a coroner explaining how her son bled to death because he did not get timely evacuation and she claims, with some justification, that there is a shortage of helicopters in the field because Mr Tightwad won't equip our troops properly.

No doubt if this story had been reported in The Guardian, it would have met your approval. 

More likely to be balanced and objective perhaps.......rather than the venom and bile that comes from the Sun and the Daily Mail...

Having read the Gruniad - excuse me- Guardian from the days of the late lamented 'Varoomshka' I would consider it far from balanced - being left of centre - and its editorial objectivity is of course subject to the assessment of the readership.

Rusbridger is no Peter Preston.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

It astounds me how anyone could claim the Gaurdian to be balanced and objective.It is completely biased towards the left,just as The Mail is biased to the right.And you really shouldnt knock the Sun - BJ and Optimist,The Sun and its proprietor have been responsible for the election of this shower that you love so much in the last 3 elections.

The Sun has no allegiance to any Political party Albitz.........It was a big supporter of Thatcher.....then decided to support Tony Blair........now it has switched to David Cameron.......
They are a bunch of unprincipled reprobates at the Sun.
As for Tony Blair.....A public school educated TORY....as far as I'am concerned.......I'am not a fan......

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I accept that Gordon Brown will not go down in history ......as a   great Prime Minister....I will leave that honour to Clement Attlee....... ::)and Benjamin Disraeli.....

However.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
He is not a showman.........and may well be socially inept......He is not an actor like Tony Blair...

The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy....(because they can).......shame on them....perhaps.....for a novelty they could try their hand at some objective journalism instead...... :-/ :-/ :-/

.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.


I would disagree with you on that Opti.  Historical evidence suggests that he is much more comfortable working behind the scenes hatching convoluted plots to achieve his goal – and getting trusted aides to carry out his wishes.

He seems to be incapable of dealing with criticism and reverts to an overbearing and abusive default when challenged.  He seems to have a highly compartmentalised emotional structure which results on the need to control every aspect of his involvement in any matter.

In short he is quite unsuitable to be a national leader.


The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy


I would tend to agree with you on that Opti.  The Sun has nailed its colours fairly firmly to the mast.

You old Cynic Zulu...... surely GB......must have some redeeming features.

[Dishevelled Den]

It astounds me how anyone could claim the Gaurdian to be balanced and objective.It is completely biased towards the left,just as The Mail is biased to the right.And you really shouldnt knock the Sun - BJ and Optimist,The Sun and its proprietor have been responsible for the election of this shower that you love so much in the last 3 elections.

The Sun has no allegiance to any Political party Albitz.........It was a big supporter of Thatcher.....then decided to support Tony Blair........now it has switched to David Cameron.......
They are a bunch of unprincipled reprobates at the Sun.
As for Tony Blair.....A public school educated TORY....as far as I'am concerned.......I'am not a fan......

Agreed.

[albitz]

I am well aware of the history of the Sun Optimist,but what I said is fact.Whichever party it decides to support wins the election,its been like that for decades now.In the last 3 elections it has supported Liebore,so they have won.Gordon Brown flew to Australia before the 1997 election specificallyto kiss Murdochs arse as much as he needed to in order to secure backing from the Sun.So that begs the question,how principled is Brown ?

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I am well aware of the history of the Sun Optimist,but what I said is fact.Whichever party it decides to support wins the election,its been like that for decades now.In the last 3 elections it has supported Liebore,so they have won.Gordon Brown flew to Australia before the 1997 election specificallyto kiss Murdochs arse as much as he needed to in order to secure backing from the Sun.So that begs the question,how principled is Brown ?

Agreed Albitz......I believe that GB ....is dead in the water......
That means we will be  left with David Cameron and George Osborne........Hmmm.....democracy..

[Dishevelled Den]

I accept that Gordon Brown will not go down in history ......as a   great Prime Minister....I will leave that honour to Clement Attlee....... ::)and Benjamin Disraeli.....

However.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
He is not a showman.........and may well be socially inept......He is not an actor like Tony Blair...

The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy....(because they can).......shame on them....perhaps.....for a novelty they could try their hand at some objective journalism instead...... :-/ :-/ :-/

.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.


I would disagree with you on that Opti.  Historical evidence suggests that he is much more comfortable working behind the scenes hatching convoluted plots to achieve his goal – and getting trusted aides to carry out his wishes.

He seems to be incapable of dealing with criticism and reverts to an overbearing and abusive default when challenged.  He seems to have a highly compartmentalised emotional structure which results on the need to control every aspect of his involvement in any matter.

In short he is quite unsuitable to be a national leader.


The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy


I would tend to agree with you on that Opti.  The Sun has nailed its colours fairly firmly to the mast.

You old Cynic Zulu...... surely GB......must have some redeeming features.

.
I am indeed old and somewhat cynical Opti and would agree with you - in that the balance of good sense must dictate that GB has something to offer politics, his party and the nation. 

Leadership is not high on that potential list unfortunately

[threppence]

Doesn't this argument over Left/Right bias in newspapers and even T.V. highlight a problem in news coverage.

Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts.However in the quest for readers/viewers, and so profits, the media now pander to whoever and wherever they can get the most value.

Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions, which can lead, as this forum clearly shows, to a lively debate.

Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does, but god help the democratic process if it does.

Having said that that Cameron does have nicer hair than Brown, but Nick Clegg has a better looking wife...........decisions,decisions,it's a toughie!!!!!

[albitz]

I wish you were right,but Rupert Murdoch via The Sun decides the outcome of British elections,has done for a long time.He does the same thing in Australia and to a certain extent the U.S. via his global media empire.He is more powerful than just about any politician you can mention.
Did someone mention democracy ? thats just something we use as a flag of convenience when we want an excuse to go and thieve the oil from the middle east.
.....................I sound even more cynical than Zulu now.

[Dishevelled Den]

Doesn't this argument over Left/Right bias in newspapers and even T.V. highlight a problem in news coverage.

Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts.However in the quest for readers/viewers, and so profits, the media now pander to whoever and wherever they can get the most value.

Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions, which can lead, as this forum clearly shows, to a lively debate.

Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does, but god help the democratic process if it does.

Having said that that Cameron does have nicer hair than Brown, but Nick Clegg has a better looking wife...........decisions,decisions,it's a toughie!!!!!

highlight a problem in news coverage

….not to those who have the gumption to aggregate the reports from several sources.


Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts

....in a perfect world perhaps - welcome to the brave new world of competitive newsgathering and presentational imperative.


Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions

....we can indeed as long as we retain an open mind.


Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does

....within a certain socio-economic demographic such support carries more weight than it should.

better looking wife..

….Samantha Cameron is much more my kind of gal.

[threppence]

Doesn't this argument over Left/Right bias in newspapers and even T.V. highlight a problem in news coverage.

Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts.However in the quest for readers/viewers, and so profits, the media now pander to whoever and wherever they can get the most value.

Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions, which can lead, as this forum clearly shows, to a lively debate.

Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does, but god help the democratic process if it does.

Having said that that Cameron does have nicer hair than Brown, but Nick Clegg has a better looking wife...........decisions,decisions,it's a toughie!!!!!

highlight a problem in news coverage

[ch8230].not to those who have the gumption to aggregate the reports from several sources.

unfortunately that rules out a large portion of the country

Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts

....in a perfect world perhaps - welcome to the brave new world of competitive newsgathering and presentational imperative.

wish I'd thought to phrase it like that


Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions

....we can indeed as long as we retain an open mind.

Again rules out a large portion of the population

Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does

....within a certain socio-economic demographic such support carries more weight than it should.

Agreed, unfortunately so.

better looking wife..

[ch8230].Samantha Cameron is much more my kind of gal.

I've always been more of an idealist than a realist but I'm getting there.