Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Stevie-blunder]

51p round here 

[Mr Skrunts]

Very interesting thread.  Certainly not worth me pating for a conversion with me only doing 3/6000 miles a year.

But if a suitably peiced car was ever offered to me that had the LPG conversion I would seriously consider it after reading the above.

[cruisetopoland]

A few points re: LPG conversions:-

1/ Insurers must be notified of modification and premium usually rises
2/ less equivalent mpg compared to petrol-less efficient combustion
3/ nearest LPG station can be miles away
4/ not permitted in Euro-Tunnel
5/ kits are not crash tested (especially rear end shunt)
6/ emergency services wary of burning LPG car-great if you are in it
7/ kits can deteriorate over time
8/ takes up space in boot, replaces spare wheel or is vulnerable under car

On balance, great idea-but too many factors for me....
Could do with the economy, though 

[Entwood]

A few points re: LPG conversions:-

1/ Insurers must be notified of modification and premium usually rises
2/ less equivalent mpg compared to petrol-less efficient combustion
3/ nearest LPG station can be miles away
4/ not permitted in Euro-Tunnel
5/ kits are not crash tested (especially rear end shunt)
6/ emergency services wary of burning LPG car-great if you are in it
7/ kits can deteriorate over time
8/ takes up space in boot, replaces spare wheel or is vulnerable under car

On balance, great idea-but too many factors for me....
Could do with the economy, though 

In answer

1. My Insurers are aware and the premium is no different, but I save on annual road tax as well.

2. mpg is not the only measure ... cost per mile (pence/mile) is a far better method and actually reflects what happens to your wallet. It is nowt to do with less efficient combustion, actually LPG is more efficient and has a higher octane rating...   All engines actually burn a MASS (weight [number of molecules]) of fuel, not a volume, and LPG is lighter than petrol so a "gallon" (litre) weighs less, so contains less MASS.. we are forced to buy by volume as thats how it's sold ..

3. So can petrol stations at reasonable prices. (check out the only petrol station in marlborough) The availability of LPG is variable but not rare

4. So how many times do you use the tunnel ?? I go to France annually and prefer the ferry .. 

5. If a rear end shunt reaches far enough forward to damage the tank .. the car has been totalled, and probably all the occupants anyway

6. Not heard of that one .. and they deal with caravans with gas bottles anyway.

7. So does your whole car. The only "consumables" are the rubber pipes and the filters, no different to the petrol side of a car, and the oil remains much cleaner anyway ..

8. Agreed, but how often do you actually "fill" your boot ?? For the few occasions I really need the "missing" space, roofbars and a "top box" is more than big enough.

If you don't want it, don't do it .. but at £100 a month savings IMHO it is worth considering.



edited for smelling pistakes ..

[cruisetopoland]

Well responded 

£100 per month not to be sniffed at....real world saving is key point, not mpg.

I have considered it before, but insurers wanted extra £65pa, our nearest LPG is miles away and I have been in a few heavy bumps (not my doing!) and was glad not to be LPG-especially the rear ender in which a "donut" tank would have been screwed or would have been pushed through into the cabin.

Big hoo-hah recently down here when LPG pipe leaked on 4x4 at Morrisons car-park and they closed it while the fire brigade dealt with it-front page story in our local rag-the old system had deteriorated.

Know a few paramedics,fire fighters etc and they are trained to be "very aware" of LPG-they will isolate a caravan, try to cool it down from a distance and cordon off the area.  A caravan can burn, but COME AND GET ME OUT of my LPG car!!!

Interesting point about the tax-not thought of that.

Still not convinced  :-/

[Lazydocker]

I agree with Entwoods comments thus far but to add (In Italics)

Well responded 

£100 per month not to be sniffed at....real world saving is key point, not mpg. Varies person to person... I have already saved well over £1000 since recouping my costs

I have considered it before, but insurers wanted extra £65pa, our nearest LPG is miles away and I have been in a few heavy bumps (not my doing!) and was glad not to be LPG-especially the rear ender in which a "donut" tank would have been screwed or would have been pushed through into the cabin. Change your insurer then... There are plenty that don't charge extra, some even give a discount now as the systems are tested to a higher standad than petrol systems

Big hoo-hah recently down here when LPG pipe leaked on 4x4 at Morrisons car-park and they closed it while the fire brigade dealt with it-front page story in our local rag-the old system had deteriorated. Poor maintenance on the owners part... Happens regularly with petrol systems but don't get the coverage as not something different

Know a few paramedics,fire fighters etc and they are trained to be "very aware" of LPG-they will isolate a caravan, try to cool it down from a distance and cordon off the area.  A caravan can burn, but COME AND GET ME OUT of my LPG car!!!
They would never stand by and watch someone burn
I've been called by the Fire Service to a petrol car on fire with a ruptured fuel tank (It actually melted in one spot) and that was a lot more dangerous than a autogas tank... Trust me, I saw what happens!

Interesting point about the tax-not thought of that.

Still not convinced  :-/
Each to their own

And some additional info...

5) Kits have been crash tested... If the engine stops, so does the LPG, at the tank! If there is a sudden release of pressure from a ruptured line, the Tank shuts off... Something which isn't normally true of petrol.
The tanks are tested to an enormous pressure and impact and will withstand an impact with a freight train at full speed without rupturing... Again, not true of petrol tanks!

As Nige' has said... If you don't want it then it's entirely up to you, but to me the savings have been fantastic... Especially now, with petrol increasing at a great rate and LPG (put simply) isn't! Add to that the "green" element (if that's your sort of thing) and the fact that I run a big comfy armchair, without sparing the horses, for about the same as it costs to run SWMBO's brand new Fiat Panda and IMO it's a winner

[feeutfo]

Well responded 

£100 per month not to be sniffed at....real world saving is key point, not mpg.

I have considered it before, but insurers wanted extra £65pa, our nearest LPG is miles away and I have been in a few heavy bumps (not my doing!) and was glad not to be LPG-especially the rear ender in which a "donut" tank would have been screwed or would have been pushed through into the cabin.

Big hoo-hah recently down here when LPG pipe leaked on 4x4 at Morrisons car-park and they closed it while the fire brigade dealt with it-front page story in our local rag-the old system had deteriorated.

Know a few paramedics,fire fighters etc and they are trained to be "very aware" of LPG-they will isolate a caravan, try to cool it down from a distance and cordon off the area.  A caravan can burn, but COME AND GET ME OUT of my LPG car!!!

Interesting point about the tax-not thought of that.

Still not convinced  :-/

during my safety certificate saga with direct line, i phoned round several insurance companys, not one added a premium if certified, and all would refuse point blank if not.....direct line added the modification for free, once i told them thier own rules, muppets.

[Lazydocker]

Well responded 

£100 per month not to be sniffed at....real world saving is key point, not mpg.

I have considered it before, but insurers wanted extra £65pa, our nearest LPG is miles away and I have been in a few heavy bumps (not my doing!) and was glad not to be LPG-especially the rear ender in which a "donut" tank would have been screwed or would have been pushed through into the cabin.

Big hoo-hah recently down here when LPG pipe leaked on 4x4 at Morrisons car-park and they closed it while the fire brigade dealt with it-front page story in our local rag-the old system had deteriorated.

Know a few paramedics,fire fighters etc and they are trained to be "very aware" of LPG-they will isolate a caravan, try to cool it down from a distance and cordon off the area.  A caravan can burn, but COME AND GET ME OUT of my LPG car!!!

Interesting point about the tax-not thought of that.

Still not convinced  :-/

during my safety certificate saga with direct line, i phoned round several insurance companys, not one added a premium if certified, and all would refuse point blank if not.....direct line added the modification for free, once i told them thier own rules, muppets.

Not all... The RR wasn't certified and neither is the Mig, yet. Been inspected (of sorts) by the supplier and is safe but waiting on the LPGA paperwork. Swiftcover is certainly a company who don't charge more and just require it to be professionally installed.... I used to work as a mechanic so it's a professional installation (confirmed by them )

And anyway... I've only seen 1 "Professional" installers work which meets my standards

[Kevin Wood]

Why are people so paranoid about LPG tanks being damaged?

1) They are far stronger than petrol tanks (plastic on an Omega)
2) You'd be doing very well to fit it in a more vulnerable position than the petrol tank in an Omega (not that far behind the rear bumper)
3) Yes, it's under pressure, so the first few seconds after a total rupture (unlikely, given its' strength) would be more exciting but after that it's the same as a petrol tank - a mass of liquid giving off a flammable vapour - the LPG would just be at -40 degrees C.
4) LPG Tanks have relief valves by law which control the rate at which the fuel can escape if in a fire. What controls the rate at which petrol can escape form a plastic tank in a fire?

I have no worries about carrying a tank of LPG around. Especially at half the price of petrol.

Kevin

[davethediver]

SO who on the site is doing DIY instalations and could they PM me with details. Im currently doing somewhere in the region og 2500 - 4000 miles a month s i really don't think it will take that long to start saving

[Kevin Wood]

SO who on the site is doing DIY instalations and could they PM me with details. Im currently doing somewhere in the region og 2500 - 4000 miles a month s i really don't think it will take that long to start saving

Here are some pictures of my install for starters.

£700 for a kit with everything required. 2 Weekends to fit. 7-10p a mile saving thereafter.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1216678718

EDIT: Cheaper for a 4 pot as you only need 4 injector channels.

Kevin

[Entwood]

SO who on the site is doing DIY instalations and could they PM me with details. Im currently doing somewhere in the region og 2500 - 4000 miles a month s i really don't think it will take that long to start saving

lazydocker will contact you very quickly I expect !!!

a DIY is about £700 I think and if good at spannering takes a long weekend. Kevin and others used to do a sort of "exchange" system on a drilled inlet manifold .. don't know if that is still around.

The reason I went "expensive (non DIY)" was simply lack of confidence/ability ... but I am still well pleased.

[Tony H]

On the subject of damage to the gas tank in a crash I think a flimsey petrol tank is more likely to rupture than a gas tank that is designed and fabricated to withstand the high pressures associated with containing LPG

[feeutfo]

the guy who certified my install mentioned that tanks are designed to withstand a 30G impact.

The exchange manifold is off a v6. 4 pot manifold much easier to drill i would think?

Lazydocker, Kevin Wood, Jamesholeinblock, and others have all fitted their kits diy. With their help and advise i was able to do mine in a couple of weekends total work time. Just took a bit longer thinking about mine. 

[cruisetopoland]

Thanks for the responses.  I looked into this in detail a few years back and decided against it at the time, but things may have changed.  Some compelling reasons why to on here now, though 

I think the crux of the matter is the quality of the installation and making sure it is properly certificated-then many of the issues don't seem to apply 

If it solves the "weapon of mass consumption" issue safely and without additional other costs, it would appear to make the Omega an ideal car...comfy, quiet, zero depreciation and reasonable running costs.  The only real bugbear with my car is the 30mpg.....

Cheers, all