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Author Topic: The burka and the niqab  (Read 2117 times)

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Nickbat

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The burka and the niqab
« on: 16 January 2010, 00:59:40 »

"The UK Independence Party is to call for a ban on the burka and the niqab — the Islamic cloak that covers women from head to toe and the mask that conceals most of the face — claiming they affront British values. The policy, which a number of European countries are also debating, is an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6990402.ece

I happen to agree with this proposal. What I find discomforting, though, is the The Times' reporter words: an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters. It assumes that if you disagree with the burka and the niqab, you must be a) white and b) working class.

I wonder what a member of the black middle class would make of such a patronising comment?

 >:( >:(
« Last Edit: 16 January 2010, 01:01:04 by Nickbat »
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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #1 on: 16 January 2010, 01:14:48 »

I often wonder how you manage to see where you're going wearing a niqab ......... but you see loads on the road earing them - at least you do in Bolton  :-X

I believe it's illegal to drive on the road wearing a full face crash helmet for visabilty reasons ....... what's the difference?  :-/ :-/ :-/
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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #2 on: 16 January 2010, 01:34:31 »

Under "true" Islamic (sharia) law ... a woman cannot drive anyway ...  so it shows the hypocrisy of "followers" yet again ....

They only "obey" or "claim" the bits of sharia law they want to....  and many Islamic scholars also say that neither the Burka or Niqab are actually proscribed by the Qur'an .... which says .. according to most western translations ..

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their khum[ch363]r over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands"

It is the religous zealots that have taken this passage and used it to intimidate and berate women
« Last Edit: 16 January 2010, 01:38:59 by entwood »
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jereboam

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #3 on: 16 January 2010, 05:30:31 »

Quote
Under "true" Islamic (sharia) law ... a woman cannot drive anyway ...  so it shows the hypocrisy of "followers" yet again ....

They only "obey" or "claim" the bits of sharia law they want to....  and many Islamic scholars also say that neither the Burka or Niqab are actually proscribed by the Qur'an .... which says .. according to most western translations ..

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their khum[ch363]r over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands"

It is the religous zealots that have taken this passage and used it to intimidate and berate women

Do you mean "prescribed"?

Can't agree with this.  If you ban this form of dress, the next thing is you'll be banning the Hasidim from wearing their stupid furry hats and shiny frock coats.  Then the Sikhs and their turbans.  Then what?  Nuns?  Gays?  Concentration camps?   >:( >:( >:(

I think religious extremists should be tolerated.  :) Except when they start killing people in the name of their religion. >:( >:( >:(
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Banjax

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #4 on: 16 January 2010, 08:55:37 »

If only everyone believed in the one true invisible superbeing fairytale then none of this would be an issue  :(
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jonnycool

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #5 on: 16 January 2010, 09:12:43 »

Quote
Quote
Under "true" Islamic (sharia) law ... a woman cannot drive anyway ...  so it shows the hypocrisy of "followers" yet again ....

They only "obey" or "claim" the bits of sharia law they want to....  and many Islamic scholars also say that neither the Burka or Niqab are actually proscribed by the Qur'an .... which says .. according to most western translations ..

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their khum[ch363]r over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands"

It is the religous zealots that have taken this passage and used it to intimidate and berate women

Do you mean "prescribed"?

Can't agree with this.  If you ban this form of dress, the next thing is you'll be banning the Hasidim from wearing their stupid furry hats and shiny frock coats.  Then the Sikhs and their turbans.  Then what?  Nuns?  Gays?  Concentration camps?   >:( >:( >:(
I think religious extremists should be tolerated.  :) Except when they start killing people in the name of their religion. >:( >:( >:(
These other forms of dress don't enable you to walk around completely unidentifiably though. There's a good reason why we want to ban them
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Martin_1962

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #6 on: 16 January 2010, 09:15:40 »

These are the Ninja women aren't they?

I think I have seen one in real life.

Seen quite a few with the head scarf though.
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #7 on: 16 January 2010, 09:55:20 »

Quote
"The UK Independence Party is to call for a ban on the burka and the niqab — the Islamic cloak that covers women from head to toe and the mask that conceals most of the face — claiming they affront British values. The policy, which a number of European countries are also debating, is an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6990402.ece

I happen to agree with this proposal. What I find discomforting, though, is the The Times' reporter words: an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters. It assumes that if you disagree with the burka and the niqab, you must be a) white and b) working class.

I wonder what a member of the black middle class would make of such a patronising comment?

 >:( >:(



I happen to agree with this proposal


As do I Nick - especially on the security front.


The Times

The progeny of Uncle Rubert's organs have a habit of getting right up one's nose! ::) ::)
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #8 on: 16 January 2010, 10:03:23 »

Quote
"The UK Independence Party is to call for a ban on the burka and the niqab — the Islamic cloak that covers women from head to toe and the mask that conceals most of the face — claiming they affront British values. The policy, which a number of European countries are also debating, is an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6990402.ece

I happen to agree with this proposal. What I find discomforting, though, is the The Times' reporter words: an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters. It assumes that if you disagree with the burka and the niqab, you must be a) white and b) working class.

I wonder what a member of the black middle class would make of such a patronising comment?

 >:( >:(

a correct and necessary ban.. in the last years I started to see another form of it more frequently >:(

and the requirement of white and working class is more ridiculous than the dress itself.. ;D
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Nickbat

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #9 on: 16 January 2010, 10:49:38 »

Quote
Quote
Under "true" Islamic (sharia) law ... a woman cannot drive anyway ...  so it shows the hypocrisy of "followers" yet again ....

They only "obey" or "claim" the bits of sharia law they want to....  and many Islamic scholars also say that neither the Burka or Niqab are actually proscribed by the Qur'an .... which says .. according to most western translations ..

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their khum[ch363]r over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands"

It is the religous zealots that have taken this passage and used it to intimidate and berate women

Do you mean "prescribed"?

Can't agree with this.  If you ban this form of dress, the next thing is you'll be banning the Hasidim from wearing their stupid furry hats and shiny frock coats.  Then the Sikhs and their turbans.  Then what?  Nuns?  Gays?  Concentration camps?   >:( >:( >:(

I think religious extremists should be tolerated.  :) Except when they start killing people in the name of their religion. >:( >:( >:(

Proscribed (with the "o") means prohibited.

There is a world of difference between turbans and burkas. the turban is a more a religious symbol, but as has been pointed out elsewhere, the burka and niqab are more cultural than religious and are worn to prevent men seeing the faces of those who are "owned" by others. It is to do with the subjugation of women, not spiritual belief, IMHO. I do not have a problem with people wearing religious symbols, but the burka and niqab are not in that category and I believe they make those with who they come into contact feel very uncomfortable. Additionally, there is the identity problem. I believe a number of terrorists around the world have evaded capture by wearing burkas and niqabs. I would not wish that to happen in the UK. Thus I support the UKIP position.
« Last Edit: 16 January 2010, 10:57:38 by Nickbat »
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Pitchfork

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #10 on: 16 January 2010, 11:43:41 »

I think Flat Caps should also be banned!! ;D
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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #11 on: 16 January 2010, 11:51:45 »

Quote
If only everyone believed in the one true invisible superbeing fairytale then none of this would be an issue  :(

Yep there is only one santa  :y
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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #12 on: 16 January 2010, 12:54:25 »

Quote
"The UK Independence Party is to call for a ban on the burka and the niqab — the Islamic cloak that covers women from head to toe and the mask that conceals most of the face — claiming they affront British values. The policy, which a number of European countries are also debating, is an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6990402.ece

I happen to agree with this proposal. What I find discomforting, though, is the The Times' reporter words: an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters. It assumes that if you disagree with the burka and the niqab, you must be a) white and b) working class.

I wonder what a member of the black middle class would make of such a patronising comment?

 >:( >:(

......what does this mean?........I really have no idea. Is there a difference between the new underclass and the old working class?.
What is the difference between.....lower middle class.......middle class.....and upper middle class?.
Surely these victorian "labels"......should be a thing of the past.......they are a very crude way .....of describing a persons worth. :y :y :y ;)
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Nickbat

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #13 on: 16 January 2010, 15:35:34 »

Quote
Quote
"The UK Independence Party is to call for a ban on the burka and the niqab — the Islamic cloak that covers women from head to toe and the mask that conceals most of the face — claiming they affront British values. The policy, which a number of European countries are also debating, is an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6990402.ece

I happen to agree with this proposal. What I find discomforting, though, is the The Times' reporter words: an attempt by UKIP to broaden its appeal and address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters. It assumes that if you disagree with the burka and the niqab, you must be a) white and b) working class.

I wonder what a member of the black middle class would make of such a patronising comment?

 >:( >:(

......what does this mean?........I really have no idea. Is there a difference between the new underclass and the old working class?.
What is the difference between.....lower middle class.......middle class.....and upper middle class?.
Surely these victorian "labels"......should be a thing of the past.......they are a very crude way .....of describing a persons worth. :y :y :y ;)

I quite agree, which is why I found the article's claim that the policy would "...address the concerns of disaffected white working-class voters" so patronising. The intended sub-text is obvious: white working-class voters = ignorant scum.
 >:(
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albitz

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Re: The burka and the niqab
« Reply #14 on: 16 January 2010, 15:40:05 »

Another good reason to vote UKIP. :y
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