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[STMO999]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

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[Banjax]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying

[Dishevelled Den]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying

Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?

[Chris_H]

God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.

We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!   

He's weakening Lizzie!  He reckons he has a conscience!!!!

23 Million GBP and counting eh?  May God bless such generosity and make every penny of it count.

Who?   If there's a god, why did he create earthquakes?

Very sexist for one so unbelieving! 

One could argue that the earthquake wasn't the problem it was  what someone else built on top of (probably known) fault lines?

If there is a God then He set a very good example of wibbly-wobbly structures called trees that cope pretty well with earth tremors, winds etc..  Mankind in his(?) naivety tends to build rigid, brittle structures that take little note of earthquake experience.  I believe that in San Francisco and other wealthy 'quake regions they are using more appropriate designs.

[STMO999]

God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.

We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!   

He's weakening Lizzie!  He reckons he has a conscience!!!!

23 Million GBP and counting eh?  May God bless such generosity and make every penny of it count.

Who?   If there's a god, why did he create earthquakes?

Very sexist for one so unbelieving! 

One could argue that the earthquake wasn't the problem it was  what someone else built on top of (probably known) fault lines?

If there is a God then He set a very good example of wibbly-wobbly structures called trees that cope pretty well with earth tremors, winds etc..  Mankind in his(?) naivety tends to build rigid, brittle structures that take little note of earthquake experience.  I believe that in San Francisco and other wealthy 'quake regions they are using more appropriate designs.

[/highlight]


That argument is null and void, cause there is no god. Deffo.

[Chris_H]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

Sadly in this day-and-age Zulu77, part of the money goes on being accountable!!!  Because of people taking the mick over the years, the Charity Commission in this country has had(?) to lay down some ground rules that cost money to implement.

Also there are some large charities that are run like big businesses with highly-paid fund-raisers who rank with the bank bosses in OTT remunerations hence my original exhortation for people to donate via trust-worthy ones.

[Banjax]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying

Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?

yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.

[Dishevelled Den]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

Sadly in this day-and-age Zulu77, part of the money goes on being accountable!!!  Because of people taking the mick over the years, the Charity Commission in this country has had(?) to lay down some ground rules that cost money to implement.

Also there are some large charities that are run like big businesses with highly-paid fund-raisers who rank with the bank bosses in OTT remunerations hence my original exhortation for people to donate via trust-worthy ones.

I would certainly agree with that Chris.

[Banjax]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

Sadly in this day-and-age Zulu77, part of the money goes on being accountable!!!  Because of people taking the mick over the years, the Charity Commission in this country has had(?) to lay down some ground rules that cost money to implement.

Also there are some large charities that are run like big businesses with highly-paid fund-raisers who rank with the bank bosses in OTT remunerations hence my original exhortation for people to donate via trust-worthy ones.

I would certainly agree with that Chris.

yep - pop into Oxfam or your local red cross volunteer shop 

[Chris_H]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

Sadly in this day-and-age Zulu77, part of the money goes on being accountable!!!  Because of people taking the mick over the years, the Charity Commission in this country has had(?) to lay down some ground rules that cost money to implement.

Also there are some large charities that are run like big businesses with highly-paid fund-raisers who rank with the bank bosses in OTT remunerations hence my original exhortation for people to donate via trust-worthy ones.

I would certainly agree with that Chris.

There was a guy in the lunchtime news from Care International talking about their involvement in Haiti.  They had staff missing and staff-relatives known to be dead because they already had a presence in that country.  That fact alone will mean that 100% cannot get to the 'locals' - the organisation has been hit by the very tragedy they are now trying to ameliorate.

FWIW, their website claims that "more than 90 pence in every pound goes towards our poverty fighting programmes." which sounds pretty good considering they pay respectable salaries ( a job for STMO? ).

And BTW I've not donated via them to date and have no connection...

[Dishevelled Den]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying

Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?

yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.

yes it would, but right now they need cash


Right now bj they need security for without it, irrespective of the amount of cash thrown that way, how much will really get to those projects and to those people in need?


in any disaster cash is king


...and that is why there is so much abuse to the end amount of the typical charitable donation.


theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs

If ever there was a time for level-headed thinking bj, this is it - simply throwing money at a problem will not mitigate its effects or make it go away.

[Banjax]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying

Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?

yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.

yes it would, but right now they need cash


Right now bj they need security for without it, irrespective of the amount of cash thrown that way, how much will really get to those projects and to those people in need?


in any disaster cash is king


...and that is why there is so much abuse to the end amount of the typical charitable donation.


theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs

If ever there was a time for level-headed thinking bj, this is it - simply throwing money at a problem will not mitigate its effects or make it go away.

there is no time - deal with the perceived problems later, right now people are dying - we can waste billions bailing the banks out who then turn around stick up two fingers and award themselves huge bonuses and yet people have the temerity to question....................
actually fk it - dont have time - i know your point but i couldnt care less - this is no time to start analysing the details like an over eager bean counter m8 - once the situation stabilises i think its becoming clearer every year we need worldwide consensus across the board on how to deal with these emergencies but right now throwing money at it is the best we've got.
who cares if a few million is squandered?

i think you need to look at the big, immediate picture - what you're asking for zulu is right but unfortunately we ignore the issues until the next big disaster and right now pausing for a full audit of every pound would be unbelievably callous......normally we dont care about waste - so lets not make it something we care about today eh?

[Dishevelled Den]

there is no time - deal with the perceived problems later, right now people are dying - we can waste billions bailing the banks out who then turn around stick up two fingers and award themselves huge bonuses and yet people have the temerity to question....................
actually fk it - dont have time - i know your point but i couldnt care less - this is no time to start analysing the details like an over eager bean counter m8 - once the situation stabilises i think its becoming clearer every year we need worldwide consensus across the board on how to deal with these emergencies but right now throwing money at it is the best we've got.
who cares if a few million is squandered?

i think you need to look at the big, immediate picture - what you're asking for zulu is right but unfortunately we ignore the issues until the next big disaster and right now pausing for a full audit of every pound would be unbelievably callous......normally we dont care about waste - so lets not make it something we care about today eh?

Thank you for your impassioned reply bj and I do agree with some of the points you raise however I don't think that I can reconcile my viewpoint in totality with yours.

[Nickbat]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying

Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?

yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.

I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.

At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti 

In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?

Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid  actually reaches those who need it most.
    

[Dishevelled Den]

I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.

i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying

Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?

yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.

I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.

At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti 

In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?

Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid  actually reaches those who need it most.
    

Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food.


The most important elements in the first response to a disaster of this magnitude and few of these crucial steps can be taken - in areas such as this -  without an adequate security presence being in place