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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

This thread has really gone downhill......I blame STMO.....

[STMO999]

This thread has really gone downhill......I blame STMO.....

It's a fair cop guv, I'll come quiet.

[cem_devecioglu]

interesting 

bank=mechanism that the owner earn good sums from your money and give you nearly nothing and sometimes even your money evaporizes

capitalism=big fish eats all small fish.. and as a miggy owner no chance for you to be a big fish

[Vamps]

This thread has really gone downhill......I blame STMO.....

It's a fair cop guv, I'll come quiet.

Yeo, he did not even know there was football on the TV tonight, not that I will be watching it.........

[Dishevelled Den]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

And we're really that brilliant now?

A point well worth considering Del 8-)

[Dishevelled Den]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

Have you actually READ their manifesto?  :-?

No, I didn't think so. 

hilarious isn't it 

scrap human rights? nice, real nice - nutters

increase defence spending by 40%? do they know thats quite a lot of money? more than they’d ever save leaving the EU

they want to free UK from relying on middle east and russian oil, yet oppose wind farms?

300% increase in border control!! this has all been costed has it?

oh, and Norway isn’t a member of the EU? correct, technically it’s not but this makes no difference to the legislation imposed by the EU because it is a member (a founding member no less) of the European economic area - a must if you want access to the EU’s internal market......which we do don’t we?
same for the Swiss - to all intents and purposes they’re a fully functioning member of the EU

my cheques in the post - where do i sign up to these geniuses? 

In case anyone thinks that Banjax gives a balance apprasial of the UKIP manifesto, allow me to present this:

* New “Flat tax” replacing Income Tax & National Insurance
* No tax on first £11,500p.a earnings
* No tax for people on minimum wage
* VAT scrapped to be replaced by a local sales tax
* End uncontrolled mass immigration
* Work permits only for UK economic needs (as in Australia)
* Keep our proud tradition of helping genuine asylum seekers who fear for their lives.
* Swiss-style referenda on key local and national issues
* Student grants, not student loans
* Invest in new high-speed rail routes and re-open selected local lines.
* Encourage electric cars, lorries and trains
* Make foreign lorries pay to use UK roads
* Stop persecuting motorists with huge tax rises and over-zealous enforcement
* Cease funding for the IPCC, pull out of the EU’s Carbon Trading Scheme and would establish a Royal Commission that would allow scientists on both sides of the debate to research climate change and come to a conclusion

 

Can't see anything "hilarious" there. But then, I don't have Banjax's sense of humour.


Yes, it does also call for our services to be properly equipped, and yes it does call for the scrapping of the Human Rights Act (that great piece of EU legislation that is so ill-conceived that it is a charter for any ne'er do well with lawyer). Eminently sensible to me.

No, not nutters. The nutters are the socialists that have spent so many years breaking this country and our society apart.    

.....You use the words socialist/socialism  ......as though they are some kind of disease Nick :-/ :-/......and the words Capitalism/Capitalist........as though we have Utopia here on Earth :-/Not quite as simple as that I'm afraid.
It is strange how .......all those nasty Capitalist..(I don't give a shit about anything ...or anybody but myself) banks/bankers....have now come running home to Socialist Mummy......who has very kindly put a multi-billion pound  Socialist plaster on their grazed capitalist knees. 

banks/bankers....have now come running home to Socialist Mummy......who has very kindly put a multi-billion pound  Socialist plaster on their grazed capitalist knees

How dare you refer to to our present system of government as being 'Socialist' Opti

[Nickbat]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

And we're really that brilliant now?

A point well worth considering Del 8-)

1. The suggestion of monocles and bowler hats is plain daft.

2. Who cares what the rest of Europe "thinks"? Indeed, who are the "rest of Europe"? The socialist, Bilderburgers?

The EU is an organisation that costs us £138.6 million net, per day. The EU Commission answers to no-one. It is likely that, soon, we shall have a European Public Prosecutor, with an accompanying law body, Corpus Juris, which will effectively usurp our centuries old English & Scottish legal systems.

Ina few years time, it will give me no pleasure to say that you were warned.

   

[kevinminton]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

And we're really that brilliant now?

A point well worth considering Del 8-)

1. The suggestion of monocles and bowler hats is plain daft.

2. Who cares what the rest of Europe "thinks"? Indeed, who are the "rest of Europe"? The socialist, Bilderburgers?

The EU is an organisation that costs us £138.6 million net, per day. The EU Commission answers to no-one. It is likely that, soon, we shall have a European Public Prosecutor, with an accompanying law body, Corpus Juris, which will effectively usurp our centuries old English & Scottish legal systems.

Ina few years time, it will give me no pleasure to say that you were warned.

   

Who cares what the rest of Europe "thinks"? Me, for one.

European Public Prosecutor: here, for those that like to make their own informed opinions, is a link to the relevant Treaty article: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:115:0047:0199:EN:PDF. Go to Article 86 - page 36/153 on my screen.

Quote: "In order to combat crimes affecting the financial interests of the Union, the Council, by means
of regulations adopted in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may establish a European
Public Prosecutor's Office from Eurojust. The Council shall act unanimously after obtaining the
consent of the European Parliament." [my emphasis]

Corpus juris? = a body of law, not a law body. Or have I missed something?

K

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

And we're really that brilliant now?

A point well worth considering Del 8-)

1. The suggestion of monocles and bowler hats is plain daft.

2. Who cares what the rest of Europe "thinks"? Indeed, who are the "rest of Europe"? The socialist, Bilderburgers?

The EU is an organisation that costs us £138.6 million net, per day. The EU Commission answers to no-one. It is likely that, soon, we shall have a European Public Prosecutor, with an accompanying law body, Corpus Juris, which will effectively usurp our centuries old English & Scottish legal systems.

Ina few years time, it will give me no pleasure to say that you were warned.

   

or perhaps............ I (Nickbat) got it completely wrong.....

[Dishevelled Den]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

And we're really that brilliant now?

A point well worth considering Del 8-)

1. The suggestion of monocles and bowler hats is plain daft.

2. Who cares what the rest of Europe "thinks"? Indeed, who are the "rest of Europe"? The socialist, Bilderburgers?

The EU is an organisation that costs us £138.6 million net, per day. The EU Commission answers to no-one. It is likely that, soon, we shall have a European Public Prosecutor, with an accompanying law body, Corpus Juris, which will effectively usurp our centuries old English & Scottish legal systems.

Ina few years time, it will give me no pleasure to say that you were warned.

   

Who cares what the rest of Europe "thinks"? Me, for one.

European Public Prosecutor: here, for those that like to make their own informed opinions, is a link to the relevant Treaty article: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:115:0047:0199:EN:PDF. Go to Article 86 - page 36/153 on my screen.

Quote: "In order to combat crimes affecting the financial interests of the Union, the Council, by means
of regulations adopted in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may establish a European
Public Prosecutor's Office from Eurojust. The Council shall act unanimously after obtaining the
consent of the European Parliament." [my emphasis]

Corpus juris? = a body of law, not a law body. Or have I missed something?

K

This seems to be a slightly different take on this K that confirms in my mind at least that anything connected with Brussels is fraught with double-meaning and holds the possibility of having substantial poilcy 'creep'


Article 18 of Corpus Juris expressly refers to the whole of the territory of all the member states of the EU forming "a single legal area. The former President of the European Parliament, the notorious federalist Josi Maria Gil-Robles, wants to see a common European judicial space", to which the answer must surely be: "No way, Josi".

The European legal area would involve sweeping away the existing criminal justice systems of the Member States. Trial by Jury and Habeas Corpus would be abolished and with them our ancient freedoms, to be replaced by an inquisitorial system based on the tyrannical Napoleonic Code. The presumption of innocence would become worthless and every man, woman and child in the country, guilty or innocent, would become liable to be arrested at the whim of the European Public prosecution. Warrants could b¢ issued anywhere in the European Union and the police officers enforcing Corpus Juris would not respect national boundaries - forcible removal from one Member State to another is provided for. It is inevitable that Europol would become closely involved and the destruction of that organisation must surely become a national priority


Read more here: http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/cj_folder/cj_index.html

Treaty article: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:115:0047:0199:EN:PDF. Go to Article 86 -

Reading on from the first paragraph relevent to your link K, does the following not suggest that, typical of the way the EU bodies steer their legislative proposals, this is another measure that will be forced through 'by hook or by crook'?



In the absence of unanimity in the Council, a group of at least nine Member States may request that the
draft regulation be referred to the European Council. In that case, the procedure in the Council shall be
suspended. After discussion, and in case of a consensus, the European Council shall, within four
months of this suspension, refer the draft back to the Council for adoption.[/b]



Within the same timeframe, in case of disagreement, and if at least nine Member States wish to
establish enhanced cooperation on the basis of the draft regulation concerned, they shall notify the
European Parliament, the Council and the Commission accordingly. In such a case, the authorisation to
proceed with enhanced cooperation referred to in Article 20(2) of the Treaty on European Union and
Article 329(1) of this Treaty shall be deemed to be granted and the provisions on enhanced
cooperation shall apply.[/b]

[Banjax]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

Have you actually READ their manifesto?  :-?

No, I didn't think so. 

hilarious isn't it 

scrap human rights? nice, real nice - nutters

increase defence spending by 40%? do they know thats quite a lot of money? more than they’d ever save leaving the EU

they want to free UK from relying on middle east and russian oil, yet oppose wind farms?

300% increase in border control!! this has all been costed has it?

oh, and Norway isn’t a member of the EU? correct, technically it’s not but this makes no difference to the legislation imposed by the EU because it is a member (a founding member no less) of the European economic area - a must if you want access to the EU’s internal market......which we do don’t we?
same for the Swiss - to all intents and purposes they’re a fully functioning member of the EU

my cheques in the post - where do i sign up to these geniuses? 

In case anyone thinks that Banjax gives a balance apprasial of the UKIP manifesto, allow me to present this:

* New “Flat tax” replacing Income Tax & National Insurance
* No tax on first £11,500p.a earnings
* No tax for people on minimum wage
* VAT scrapped to be replaced by a local sales tax
* End uncontrolled mass immigration
* Work permits only for UK economic needs (as in Australia)
* Keep our proud tradition of helping genuine asylum seekers who fear for their lives.
* Swiss-style referenda on key local and national issues
* Student grants, not student loans
* Invest in new high-speed rail routes and re-open selected local lines.
* Encourage electric cars, lorries and trains
* Make foreign lorries pay to use UK roads
* Stop persecuting motorists with huge tax rises and over-zealous enforcement
* Cease funding for the IPCC, pull out of the EU’s Carbon Trading Scheme and would establish a Royal Commission that would allow scientists on both sides of the debate to research climate change and come to a conclusion

 

Can't see anything "hilarious" there. But then, I don't have Banjax's sense of humour.


Yes, it does also call for our services to be properly equipped, and yes it does call for the scrapping of the Human Rights Act (that great piece of EU legislation that is so ill-conceived that it is a charter for any ne'er do well with lawyer). Eminently sensible to me.

No, not nutters. The nutters are the socialists that have spent so many years breaking this country and our society apart.    

.....You use the words socialist/socialism  ......as though they are some kind of disease Nick :-/ :-/......and the words Capitalism/Capitalist........as though we have Utopia here on Earth :-/Not quite as simple as that I'm afraid.
It is strange how .......all those nasty Capitalist..(I don't give a shit about anything ...or anybody but myself) banks/bankers....have now come running home to Socialist Mummy......who has very kindly put a multi-billion pound  Socialist plaster on their grazed capitalist knees. 

banks/bankers....have now come running home to Socialist Mummy......who has very kindly put a multi-billion pound  Socialist plaster on their grazed capitalist knees

How dare you refer to to our present system of government as being 'Socialist' Opti

an oversight for which my comrade will be severely reprimanded Zulu   



opti - how'd you fancy discovering where salt comes from? 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Huh? :-?

my way of saying hello Nick 

but seriously - it doesn't need expanding does it? as others have said they're a disgraceful, childish, self-serving bunch of little englanders who have no idea how to behave, hence resort to cheap publicity stunts and jumping on whichever band-wagons are passing

imagine that lot got in - we'd be the laughing-stock of europe in our little bowler hats, monocles and cups of tea 

 

Have you actually READ their manifesto?  :-?

No, I didn't think so. 

hilarious isn't it 

scrap human rights? nice, real nice - nutters

increase defence spending by 40%? do they know thats quite a lot of money? more than they’d ever save leaving the EU

they want to free UK from relying on middle east and russian oil, yet oppose wind farms?

300% increase in border control!! this has all been costed has it?

oh, and Norway isn’t a member of the EU? correct, technically it’s not but this makes no difference to the legislation imposed by the EU because it is a member (a founding member no less) of the European economic area - a must if you want access to the EU’s internal market......which we do don’t we?
same for the Swiss - to all intents and purposes they’re a fully functioning member of the EU

my cheques in the post - where do i sign up to these geniuses? 

In case anyone thinks that Banjax gives a balance apprasial of the UKIP manifesto, allow me to present this:

* New “Flat tax” replacing Income Tax & National Insurance
* No tax on first £11,500p.a earnings
* No tax for people on minimum wage
* VAT scrapped to be replaced by a local sales tax
* End uncontrolled mass immigration
* Work permits only for UK economic needs (as in Australia)
* Keep our proud tradition of helping genuine asylum seekers who fear for their lives.
* Swiss-style referenda on key local and national issues
* Student grants, not student loans
* Invest in new high-speed rail routes and re-open selected local lines.
* Encourage electric cars, lorries and trains
* Make foreign lorries pay to use UK roads
* Stop persecuting motorists with huge tax rises and over-zealous enforcement
* Cease funding for the IPCC, pull out of the EU’s Carbon Trading Scheme and would establish a Royal Commission that would allow scientists on both sides of the debate to research climate change and come to a conclusion

 

Can't see anything "hilarious" there. But then, I don't have Banjax's sense of humour.


Yes, it does also call for our services to be properly equipped, and yes it does call for the scrapping of the Human Rights Act (that great piece of EU legislation that is so ill-conceived that it is a charter for any ne'er do well with lawyer). Eminently sensible to me.

No, not nutters. The nutters are the socialists that have spent so many years breaking this country and our society apart.    

.....You use the words socialist/socialism  ......as though they are some kind of disease Nick :-/ :-/......and the words Capitalism/Capitalist........as though we have Utopia here on Earth :-/Not quite as simple as that I'm afraid.
It is strange how .......all those nasty Capitalist..(I don't give a shit about anything ...or anybody but myself) banks/bankers....have now come running home to Socialist Mummy......who has very kindly put a multi-billion pound  Socialist plaster on their grazed capitalist knees. 

banks/bankers....have now come running home to Socialist Mummy......who has very kindly put a multi-billion pound  Socialist plaster on their grazed capitalist knees

How dare you refer to to our present system of government as being 'Socialist' Opti

an oversight for which my comrade will be severely reprimanded Zulu   



opti - how'd you fancy discovering where salt comes from? 

.....Agreed......the word socialist is not really appropriate for "New (blue)Labour".......fifteen years of breaking rocks ......will soon sort me out....

[kevinminton]

1. The suggestion of monocles and bowler hats is plain daft.

2. Who cares what the rest of Europe "thinks"? Indeed, who are the "rest of Europe"? The socialist, Bilderburgers?

The EU is an organisation that costs us £138.6 million net, per day. The EU Commission answers to no-one. It is likely that, soon, we shall have a European Public Prosecutor, with an accompanying law body, Corpus Juris, which will effectively usurp our centuries old English & Scottish legal systems.

Ina few years time, it will give me no pleasure to say that you were warned.

    [/quote]


Who cares what the rest of Europe "thinks"? Me, for one.

European Public Prosecutor: here, for those that like to make their own informed opinions, is a link to the relevant Treaty article: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:115:0047:0199:EN:PDF. Go to Article 86 - page 36/153 on my screen.

Quote: "In order to combat crimes affecting the financial interests of the Union, the Council, by means
of regulations adopted in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may establish a European
Public Prosecutor's Office from Eurojust. The Council shall act unanimously after obtaining the
consent of the European Parliament." [my emphasis]

Corpus juris? = a body of law, not a law body. Or have I missed something?

K[/quote]


This seems to be a slightly different take on this K that confirms in my mind at least that anything connected with Brussels is fraught with double-meaning and holds the possibility of having substantial poilcy 'creep'

Article 18 of Corpus Juris expressly refers to the whole of the territory of all the member states of the EU forming "a single legal area. The former President of the European Parliament, the notorious federalist Josi Maria Gil-Robles, wants to see a common European judicial space", to which the answer must surely be: "No way, Josi".

The European legal area would involve sweeping away the existing criminal justice systems of the Member States. Trial by Jury and Habeas Corpus would be abolished and with them our ancient freedoms, to be replaced by an inquisitorial system based on the tyrannical Napoleonic Code. The presumption of innocence would become worthless and every man, woman and child in the country, guilty or innocent, would become liable to be arrested at the whim of the European Public prosecution. Warrants could b¢ issued anywhere in the European Union and the police officers enforcing Corpus Juris would not respect national boundaries - forcible removal from one Member State to another is provided for. It is inevitable that Europol would become closely involved and the destruction of that organisation must surely become a national priority


Read more here: http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/cj_folder/cj_index.html

Treaty article: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:115:0047:0199:EN:PDF. Go to Article 86 -

Reading on from the first paragraph relevent to your link K, does the following not suggest that, typical of the way the EU bodies steer their legislative proposals, this is another measure that will be forced through 'by hook or by crook'?



In the absence of unanimity in the Council, a group of at least nine Member States may request that the
draft regulation be referred to the European Council. In that case, the procedure in the Council shall be
suspended. After discussion, and in case of a consensus, the European Council shall, within four
months of this suspension, refer the draft back to the Council for adoption.[/b]



Within the same timeframe, in case of disagreement, and if at least nine Member States wish to
establish enhanced cooperation on the basis of the draft regulation concerned, they shall notify the
European Parliament, the Council and the Commission accordingly. In such a case, the authorisation to
proceed with enhanced cooperation referred to in Article 20(2) of the Treaty on European Union and
Article 329(1) of this Treaty shall be deemed to be granted and the provisions on enhanced
cooperation shall apply.[/b][/quote]

 
Regarding different takes, Z, I am always cautious as to whether the author is looking at the reality & facts from original sources, or merely bending the information to their own pre-determined ends. As someone said to me at work recently: "Don't confuse me with the facts ...!"

fraught with double-meaning Yes .. at least double ... it is often difficult to find any meaning in some things.

substantial policy 'creep' I've met some of those in Whitehall and in Brussels!

eurofaq I was unable to work out who this site belongs to. Tried to find some authority behind the assertions, but found none. I have to admit that anything that refers to a "notorious federalist" can make me react, rather than respond. Surely the EU is pursuing a policy of liberal intergovernmentalism? 

forced through If I read these provison correctly, they still require a minimum of nine member states to agree. Does this not take the power away from the institutions and put it back to the Members? (Discuss)

Sorry, I've messed up the quotes above.

K

[Entwood]

Is it mandatory for the posts in these threads to get bigger and [size=16]bigger[/size] and [size=20]bigger[/size] ??

I fail to see why every thing every other person has ever said must be quoted by every one else .. or is it pure laziness  ??  Ie .. just hit quote then add one line

Doesn't make the subject any more attractive to the neutral reader ....  mind you .. as there are usually only 4/5 posters having their own private argument I guess it doesn't matter really  ..   

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Is it mandatory for the posts in these threads to get bigger and [size=16]bigger[/size] and [size=20]bigger[/size] ??

I fail to see why every thing every other person has ever said must be quoted by every one else .. or is it pure laziness  ??  Ie .. just hit quote then add one line

Doesn't make the subject any more attractive to the neutral reader ....  mind you .. as there are usually only 4/5 posters having their own private argument I guess it doesn't matter really  ..   

......I don't know how to reduce thread length .....Entwood......

Read the I.Q thread .....and you'll see why....