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[Nickbat]

We learn today that:

The volcanic ash cloud which grounded flights was so thin it was "close to undetectable", aviation chiefs admitted yesterday.

But the Met Office was unable to measure the true extent of the problem as its research plane was out of action.

Now it has emerged the maximum density of the cloud was only one 20th of the safe flying limit now in place - with satellite images showing UK skies ash-free for most of the six-day crisis.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/04/26/flight-ban-caused-by-data-error-as-volcano-ash-cloud-was-close-to-undetectable-115875-22212727/

Oh, and for good measure, the chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority, Deidre Hutton, has considerable experience in....


...quangos.

She has worked for ten quangos in 30 years, none of them aviation related. In fact, when the Labour government appointed her as chairman of the CAA, her reaction was "Why do you want me to get involved in aviation? I don't know anything about aeroplanes."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7614029/Deirdre-Hutton-CAA-chairman-profile.html

It's enough to make you weep. 

[Kevin Wood]

But the Met Office was unable to measure the true extent of the problem as its research plane was out of action.

Met Office are only interested in computer modelling these days, hence the quality of their forecasts. They should look out of the window occasionally. 

Oh, and for good measure, the chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority, Deidre Hutton, has considerable experience in....


...quangos.

She has worked for ten quangos in 30 years, none of them aviation related. In fact, when the Labour government appointed her as chairman of the CAA, her reaction was "Why do you want me to get involved in aviation? I don't know anything about aeroplanes."

As anyone who has ever tried to operate a glider (or, I suspect, anything else that flies) in the UK will no doubt agree, the highlighted assertion is true of most of the staff of the "Campaign Against Aviation", not just their chairmanperson.

Not necessarily a problem because their powers are fast being handed over to Eurocontrol and the EASA. Problem is, they are worse, and less accountable.

Kevin

[Mr Skrunts]

Clever stuff eh! NOT 

[tunnie]

on the other side of the coin, if it was 20 times more dense than first thought, and brought down a couple of 747's, there would be up-roar. Why was action not taken, why did these people have to die... bla bla

It was a no win situation really, damned if you do, damned if you don't

[Gaffers]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing 

[Banjax]

if they didn't have sufficient data to guarantee safety then you want them to what, just cross their fingers and chance it? 

also, i heard the finnish  airforce and RAF had problems with ash in their engines this month so obviously theres a risk - its all a matter of degrees


i'm not being funny Nick and i know i'm thick but can any aviation experts tell me what i'm missing? 

[Kevin Wood]

on the other side of the coin, if it was 20 times more dense than first thought, and brought down a couple of 747's, there would be up-roar. Why was action not taken, why did these people have to die... bla bla

It was a no win situation really, damned if you do, damned if you don't

Correct, and, in the absence of any information either way, the correct decision was to ground everything.

If they had been honest and said that they were closing the airspace because there is an unknown amount of ash in it, according to simulations but that they were unable to confirm this, they might not be being lambasted now.

Kevin

[Nickbat]

if they didn't have sufficient data to guarantee safety then you want them to what, just cross their fingers and chance it? 

also, i heard the finnish  airforce and RAF had problems with ash in their engines this month so obviously theres a risk - its all a matter of degrees


i'm not being funny Nick and i know i'm thick but can any aviation experts tell me what i'm missing? 

The "them" is crucial. Airlines and professional pilots generally do not risk either their lives or craft. The should be a mechanisms whereby those professional are provided with real data, not made-up stuff, and they could then make the decision jointly, through their association, as to whether the airspace should be closed. It should not be left up to a quango, especially when such quango is operating on junk data.

In any event, it was a fiasco and shows up the poor quality of our national institutions - who claim to know what's going on, but clearly don't. 

[Kevin Wood]

The "them" is crucial. Airlines and professional pilots generally do not risk either their lives or craft. The should be a mechanisms whereby those professional are provided with real data, not made-up stuff, and they could then make the decision jointly, through their association, as to whether the airspace should be closed. It should not be left up to a quango, especially when such quango is operating on junk data.

The krux of the matter being that there was no real data because there was no capability to collect it.

In the face of that, had the airspace remained open, no professional pilot would have taken passengers and aircraft through it anyway.

In any event, it was a fiasco and shows up the poor quality of our national institutions - who claim to know what's going on, but clearly don't. 

Agreed.

Kevin

[Nickbat]

Seen elsewhere:
In the last 25 years nobody has been killed in the air by volcanic ash, but 100,000 people have been killed on UK roads.

By the same precautionary principle applied to the airspace closure, there is clearly a much sounder argument to shut down the UK's entire road network NOW! 

[Banjax]

Seen elsewhere:
In the last 25 years nobody has been killed in the air by volcanic ash, but 100,000 people have been killed on UK roads.

By the same precautionary principle applied to the airspace closure, there is clearly a much sounder argument to shut down the UK's entire road network NOW! 

don't give them any ideas Nick 

[alfie]

Well to be fair,they did say that it couldn,t be seen from the ground.
Alfie.

[tidla]

whats that crap that keeps landing on my car?? second wash in a week is reqd

[Nickbat]

whats that crap that keeps landing on my car?? second wash in a week is reqd

Normal dust. It's been exceptionally dry and, under these anticyclonic conditions, it's quite common to get atmospheric dust settling, especially overnight as temperatures fall.