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[STMO999]

In relation to the previous post (by Kevin W) the term 'done up' and 'kipper' wouldn't be too far from the truth.

On the other hand if Labour are so desperate to hold onto power by any means - a fine example of democracy in glorious action and the desire to put the needs of the country over party - by allowing smaller groups to suckle at the depleted teats of their ravaged frame, then who are we to stand in their way?

Those smaller groups will require a greater share of the milk soon enough and as soon as things begin to sour it will only be too obvious how desirable strong majority government is.

We have been pushed into a hick European process, where no political force stands to be counted on their own merits, by a voting public befuddled by spin, celebrity, slick television presentation and the desire to press buttons rather than form opinion on their own.

What a bloody shambles.

YUK!

Watch out for the next BIG soundbite. When the economic crisis hit, every labour politician was briefed to make sure they included the word 'Global', just in case we might think it had anything to do with Gordon.
The latest soundbite is 'For the good of the country' or something very similar. That one is in case we think that every politician is trying desperately to cling to power no matter what.

We don't think that, do we?

[cem_devecioglu]

I dont understand,even at my ripe old age (skruntie take note!) why we must have Governments of different persuasions,Labour this way,Conservatives that way etc.
Why can we not have a Government of [size=14]Locally elected Representatives[/size] and a Leader elected by the Members,No 'Parties'. Just get on with running the country for the good of all.

eddie

 

 

if this would be the case, you will mess up all power equations .. and you would shockingly surprise some ..

 

[jerry]

people -tories mostly _have been having a go at Clegg for not being "honest/honourable" because  he had been "secretly" talking to Labour as well as them.FFS, they really didnt expect him just to talk to them did they?Time to grow up .Bottom line is that, whilst the Libdems are close to the  thinking of the conservatives on some issues, they have more in common with Labour . The problems, of course, are that 1) the conservatives have more votes than Labour 2)Labour-whether Brown goes or not as leader-is seen as a failed party and one that the country has lost faith in and, perhaps more critically for Clegg, 3)there are a lot of Labour MPs coming out saying they do not want a Labour/Libdem alliance. Clegg is stuck between a rock and a hard place really.In reality he is not in any position of power to make/break the others.(bottom line is the consevatives have most votes).It depends very much on the compromises involved and the support he will get or not get from his own party but what he can do is to try and rise above purely party considerations, make some compromises and try and get us a stable(ish) coalition. Whether he will or not will be shortly seen.

[albitz]

I agree with most of that, but remember what he saidFriday morning ? he was clear that as the Tories won most seats/votes they should have the right to try to form a govt. and therefore he would be speaking to them to try to establish a stable govt. before he would talk to anyone else.
Over the weekend he was caught red handed double crossing cameron. Brown was sneaking out the back door of Downing st. to have secret talks with him, and when it leaked out to the press he had the look of a teenager who had just been caught shoplifting.
For the record, I have never voted Tory in my life, but I hope I know the difference between right and wrong, and from where Im sitting there has been very little right and a whole lot of wrong in what has been going on since Thursday.
Brown should have resigned Friday Morning - he lost. Cameron should have been invited to the palace. He should then have informed the country that he intended to form a govt. and would offer the Libdems terms to join him in forming a majority govt. in order to provide stability for the good of the country.
This was prevented byBrown/Mnadelson/ Cameron etc. who are utterly self serving and believe that the only thing that matters is that htey keep power by any means. Clegg has been complicit in keeping this unseemly shambles going and imo he should be ashamed of himself for that.
Principles ? none of them would know a principle if it hit them over the head.

[Nickbat]

I agree with most of that, but remember what he saidFriday morning ? he was clear that as the Tories won most seats/votes they should have the right to try to form a govt. and therefore he would be speaking to them to try to establish a stable govt. before he would talk to anyone else.
Over the weekend he was caught red handed double crossing cameron. Brown was sneaking out the back door of Downing st. to have secret talks with him, and when it leaked out to the press he had the look of a teenager who had just been caught shoplifting.
For the record, I have never voted Tory in my life, but I hope I know the difference between right and wrong, and from where Im sitting there has been very little right and a whole lot of wrong in what has been going on since Thursday.
Brown should have resigned Friday Morning - he lost. Cameron should have been invited to the palace. He should then have informed the country that he intended to form a govt. and would offer the Libdems terms to join him in forming a majority govt. in order to provide stability for the good of the country.
This was prevented byBrown/Mnadelson/ Cameron etc. who are utterly self serving and believe that the only thing that matters is that htey keep power by any means. Clegg has been complicit in keeping this unseemly shambles going and imo he should be ashamed of himself for that.
Principles ? none of them would know a principle if it hit them over the head.

..and that, Albs, is the heart of the problem. After all the expenses scandals, after living under an unelected PM (guided by an unelected and disgraced Lord), this current horse trading is pretty sickening to most.

Labor and LibDems are looking devious, while Cameron is looking weak.

Essentially, as you say, there's little or no honesty or principle among them all.   


As the saying goes: "They just don't get it, do they?"

[albitz]

The best thing that could happen from the point of view of the Tory party (leaving aside what is good for the country) would be if the Lib/Lab rainbow Alliance managed to somehow form a govt.
It would be doomed to failure, it would tear itself apart and meantime the economy/pound/markets would go into freefall and the country would be on its knees.
There would have to be another election and the Tories would in all likliehood be able to finish of the Nu Liebore project and put the limpdems back in the little corner they just crawled out of.

[albitz]

I agree with most of that, but remember what he saidFriday morning ? he was clear that as the Tories won most seats/votes they should have the right to try to form a govt. and therefore he would be speaking to them to try to establish a stable govt. before he would talk to anyone else.
Over the weekend he was caught red handed double crossing cameron. Brown was sneaking out the back door of Downing st. to have secret talks with him, and when it leaked out to the press he had the look of a teenager who had just been caught shoplifting.
For the record, I have never voted Tory in my life, but I hope I know the difference between right and wrong, and from where Im sitting there has been very little right and a whole lot of wrong in what has been going on since Thursday.
Brown should have resigned Friday Morning - he lost. Cameron should have been invited to the palace. He should then have informed the country that he intended to form a govt. and would offer the Libdems terms to join him in forming a majority govt. in order to provide stability for the good of the country.
This was prevented byBrown/Mnadelson/ Cameron etc. who are utterly self serving and believe that the only thing that matters is that htey keep power by any means. Clegg has been complicit in keeping this unseemly shambles going and imo he should be ashamed of himself for that.
Principles ? none of them would know a principle if it hit them over the head.

..and that, Albs, is the heart of the problem. After all the expenses scandals, after living under an unelected PM (guided by an unelected and disgraced Lord), this current horse trading is pretty sickening to most.

Labor and LibDems are looking devious, while Cameron is looking weak.

Essentially, as you say, there's little or no honesty or principle among them all.   


As the saying goes: "They just don't get it, do they?"

I have actually been heartened by the response of some Labour (as opposed to Nu Liebore) MP,s, they have been saying that trying to cling on at all costs despite losing is bad for the country and they need to accept the reality of going back to the opposition banches for a while.
I was listening to Kate Hoey saying this in an interview this morning and it came across as dignified and genuine, something which is increasingly rare in the Westminster village coccon thses days.
It would be ironic if the thing that stopped clegg,Mandelson and Cambell from stitching the country up, was the old gaurd of the Labour party.
Personally I believe that if Clegg does get into bed with New Labour, they will eat him alive, he isnt made of strong or devious enough stuff to play in their playground.

[markfree]

I agree with most of that, but remember what he saidFriday morning ? he was clear that as the Tories won most seats/votes they should have the right to try to form a govt. and therefore he would be speaking to them to try to establish a stable govt. before he would talk to anyone else.
Over the weekend he was caught red handed double crossing cameron. Brown was sneaking out the back door of Downing st. to have secret talks with him, and when it leaked out to the press he had the look of a teenager who had just been caught shoplifting.
For the record, I have never voted Tory in my life, but I hope I know the difference between right and wrong, and from where Im sitting there has been very little right and a whole lot of wrong in what has been going on since Thursday.
Brown should have resigned Friday Morning - he lost. Cameron should have been invited to the palace. He should then have informed the country that he intended to form a govt. and would offer the Libdems terms to join him in forming a majority govt. in order to provide stability for the good of the country.
This was prevented byBrown/Mnadelson/ Cameron etc. who are utterly self serving and believe that the only thing that matters is that htey keep power by any means. Clegg has been complicit in keeping this unseemly shambles going and imo he should be ashamed of himself for that.
Principles ? none of them would know a principle if it hit them over the head.

..and that, Albs, is the heart of the problem. After all the expenses scandals, after living under an unelected PM (guided by an unelected and disgraced Lord), this current horse trading is pretty sickening to most.

Labor and LibDems are looking devious, while Cameron is looking weak.

Essentially, as you say, there's little or no honesty or principle among them all.   


As the saying goes: "They just don't get it, do they?"

GB is NOT an un-elected PM as he is the leader of the Labour party and as they were/are the government then he naturally becomes PM.
We do not elect our PM - if you want to then you have to change our constitution to a republic and elect a president (as they do in the states)........... no bad thing really as you would have to do away with the monarchy (vive la revolution).

[albitz]

Technically correct, but the fact is that the election campaign centred around the TV debates between the three leaders and most people seem to vote for Brown or cameron rather than Labour or Tory.
The fact is that Labour and Libdems lost seats and votes in the election, the Tories won seats and votes. The Tories won the election but didnt win a majority. To be governed by a coalition of losers would be an affront to democracy and an insult to the voters imo.

[Nickbat]

GB is NOT an un-elected PM as he is the leader of the Labour party and as they were/are the government then he naturally becomes PM.
We do not elect our PM - if you want to then you have to change our constitution to a republic and elect a president (as they do in the states)........... no bad thing really as you would have to do away with the monarchy (vive la revolution).

Er, hello, I know he was elected by the Labour Party, rather than the electorate, but the point is that he was not the PM when people voted Labour into power. I do not think it is right for a PM to be changed half-way through an administration, unless the existing incumbent is incapacitated.

That was my point.

[jerry]

agree with much of what you say Albs. On reflection, yes ,Clegg should have been more up front but on the otherhand, he DID speak to the conservatives first before beginning talks with Labour, just that he shouldve been open about what he was doing to both the country and the tories. I quite like Clegg but he is vastly inexperienced in comparison to the others (hardly a surprise given his age and lack of previous government positions!) , however, we all have to start somewhere I guess. Its so hard to make any real judgement based on the TV debates/manifestos/press reports isnt it? On the face of it both Clegg and Cameron seem less egotistical than Brown but are they? A critical factor in the economy is simple "confidence" and we need our so called leaders to demonstrate that they recognize this and will put the needs of the country before purely party politics. Only then can any coalition government work. To be honest, at the moment , I personally feel that a Cons/libdem alliance is the best of a bad lot in that-potentially-it would be a more stable option. I have never been a Tory as my leanings are more socialist but that is not to say that, having read all the manifestos, there are not some of their ideas and policies that I agree with. Its not ideal for anyone but they all have to look at the bigger picture and try and work together this time around. ....wont hold my breath though

[Nickbat]

#
BREAKING NEWS

Number 10 recognises that talks with the Lib Dems have not and will not reach any positive conclusion, and they are now discussing the method of declaring that their side of the negotiation is over, BBC Radio 5 Live's political correspondent Jon Pienaar says.


So Cleggy's day of fame infamy has come to an end. Will he now crawl back to Cameron?

Shambles, I tell you. Shambles. 

[Kevin Wood]

Large holdalls are being loaded into two government cars at the back of Number 10, reports the BBC News channel's chief political correspondent Laura Kuenssberg.

About ruddy time.

Kevin

[jerry]

maybe Nickbat, but if you were in Clegg's shoes what would you do?Surely you'd have to talk to both sides in order to see what your own options were? As for the failure of Libdem/Labour talks ,cant say as its a surprise. So does Clegg now stick to purely party principles and not form an alliance with either or does he compromise and fall in with the Tories (if they'll still have him  ). This would give the Libdems some sort of voice but it may also be more beneficial to the country than them all trying to go it alone... :-/

[STMO999]

maybe Nickbat, but if you were in Clegg's shoes what would you do?Surely you'd have to talk to both sides in order to see what your own options were? As for the failure of Libdem/Labour talks ,cant say as its a surprise. So does Clegg now stick to purely party principles and not form an alliance with either or does he compromise and fall in with the Tories (if they'll still have him  ). This would give the Libdems some sort of voice but it may also be more beneficial to the country than them all trying to go it alone... :-/

There's that soundbite.