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[Marks DTM Calib]

I see hs2 is getting shredded here would the simple answer in the short trem not be to increase speed limit from 125 to 145 for the pendalinos.
I found Virgin are far more helpfull and trains are cleaner,faster and comfy unlike the east coast dinosaurs

As I understand the condition of modern track, even with the refurbished West Coast Line, it is unable to take trains running at more than 125 mph throughout their length. There are too many inter change sections and crossovers to make that a safe option. 

In addition to that the amount of "space" available is limited, and does not allow a part of the traffic to run at high speed, say at 145 mph, without finding their pathways hindered by slowing moving traffic.

That is why the HS1 line is such a success, as trains can run at up to 186 mph for very long stretches without hinderence from 'regular' rail traffic.  Even with the introduction of the Javellin, Class 395, trains travelling at 'only' 140 mph the amount of free pathways still allows for maximum speed running

bring back the 47 push pulls ahh those were the days

gets my vote... a good set of shove duffs

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I see hs2 is getting shredded here would the simple answer in the short trem not be to increase speed limit from 125 to 145 for the pendalinos.
I found Virgin are far more helpfull and trains are cleaner,faster and comfy unlike the east coast dinosaurs

As I understand the condition of modern track, even with the refurbished West Coast Line, it is unable to take trains running at more than 125 mph, even when they can run at 140 mph, throughout their length. There are too many inter change sections and crossovers to make that a safe option. 

In addition to that the amount of "space" available is limited, and does not allow a part of the traffic to run at high speed, say at 145 mph, without finding their pathways hindered by slowing moving traffic.

That is why the HS1 line is such a success, as trains can run at up to 186 mph for very long stretches without hinderence from 'regular' rail traffic, junctions and crossovers.  Even with the introduction of the Javellin, Class 395, trains travelling at 'only' 140 mph the amount of free pathways still allows for maximum speed running

Sorry! Define 'Success' If you define it as built then ok, but profitable? No.

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/kent-news/High__speed-trains-hit-by-lack-of-passenger-demand-newsinkent35351.aspx?news=local

All back to my earlier point, that the High Speed tickets are three times more expensive than a ticket on the regular 125 trains

In terms of the Eurostar, and the Chunnel 'all traffic' movements, it has been a success with growing passenger numbers, and especially as an alternative to planes and ferries.

However yes Tunnie, due to the credit crunch, less Kent business traffic, and high premiums, the Javelin trains have not attracted the passengers envisaged when the units were ordered five years ago. 

That situation will change as the financial climate picks up, and the business population continues to grow in Kent.  Certainly business people using these services highly praise its benefits, and even accept the premium fares as reasonable (although who would not like all fares to be lower!!)

[kevinminton]

Thank you to all who answered my OP - I have been interested to read your views.

I see that amongst those who are generally in support, there are shared concerns over proper links to HS1 and "the mainland".

I now have a better understanding & consideration of the importance of freight in the overall deal.

Some one said that there are only a few hundred who would be served by another rail line. I think this view (if taken at face value) shows a lack of understanding of the numbers of people who do commute (eg B'ham <> London), and those who would do so if the trains weren't perceived to be crowded (Virgin) or slow (Chiltern).

It is noteworthy to me that I can get to Brussels from London cheaper than I can get (mainline) B'ham to London! So I have given up flying B'ham - Brussels. Many of the people I work with / around have taken a similar approach.

Local connections are v important. I look with envy at the number of Metro & tram lines in Brussels, & clean buses integrating with them. Brussels is about half the size of Birmingham. What have we got? Nothing to compare. Who's fault is that?

So ... thanks again for the opportunity to read & learn.

K

[Martin_1962]

I think we need a decent north south very high speed link.

[Martin_1962]

I see hs2 is getting shredded here would the simple answer in the short trem not be to increase speed limit from 125 to 145 for the pendalinos.
I found Virgin are far more helpfull and trains are cleaner,faster and comfy unlike the east coast dinosaurs

As I understand the condition of modern track, even with the refurbished West Coast Line, it is unable to take trains running at more than 125 mph throughout their length. There are too many inter change sections and crossovers to make that a safe option. 

In addition to that the amount of "space" available is limited, and does not allow a part of the traffic to run at high speed, say at 145 mph, without finding their pathways hindered by slowing moving traffic.

That is why the HS1 line is such a success, as trains can run at up to 186 mph for very long stretches without hinderence from 'regular' rail traffic.  Even with the introduction of the Javellin, Class 395, trains travelling at 'only' 140 mph the amount of free pathways still allows for maximum speed running

bring back the 47 push pulls ahh those were the days

gets my vote... a good set of shove duffs

Yuk - get a couple of Fifties, or worship the ultimate locomotive - Deltics

[JesterRT]

If the currently planned route gies ahead then My company will be regretting having spent god knows how much on a three storey computing facility which is just about at completion, as it will become part of a railway embankment leading to a tunnel.  Could be interesting times ahead

[pedroMV6]

This is a great opportunity to link the major centres of the North and bring jobs and prosperity to those parts.  No longer will it then be necessary to over crowd the South East and South generally, spreading the population and wealth to more northerly parts. 

The benefits of building such a line commence from the very start with construction and auxiliary jobs in thousands created. During and after building the line will continue to attract jobs in many fields, with British industry being able to speedily transport it's products right across Europe.

It is ironic that the vision of a fast continental line by first Watkin, then later Sir Sam Fay was almost realised in 1899 with the completion of the Great Central "London extension" line linking the likes of Rugby, Nottingham, Loughborough, and Sheffield with the intention of connecting with a future Channel Tunnel.  Yet  it was basically closed in 1966, with the final section going in 1969.

We now need the full line to achieve the original objectives, especially as the high speed line between France and St. Pancras has been built, but as with everything else first money will be a major hurdle, then as previously stated the protests by those who don't want it in their back yards!!

The estimate of 20 years before it is actually built seems about right, but that is far from good for the future of GB plc.

Why should the majority pay for this service that is only of use to a few hundred?

Cancel the project. Build a road instead.

Agreed - an Eastern motorway (Western England/Scotlandshire has the M6), by extending the M11 to King's Lynn, Lincoln, York, Middlesborough and on to Edinburgh.
I think that was the original intention for the M11?

[BigAl]

Agreed - an Eastern motorway (Western England/Scotlandshire has the M6), by extending the M11 to King's Lynn, Lincoln, York, Middlesborough and on to Edinburgh.
I think that was the original intention for the M11?

Doesn't the current upgrades of the A1 go towards this aim ?

[jonathanh]

I'm a bit cynical about the HS line.  the main problem on the birmingham london line is the restriction to two lines from rugby to birmingham.  there the local services slow the intercity service down.

I think some bright spark will come up with the idea of saving billions by 4 track into Birmingham instead of the HS line.

Same thing is happening with birmingham airport: they start consulting on a second runway. but runway capacity is not a problem. what they want is a longer runway.  I'm pretty sure that they "compromise" and drop runway 2 to get an extension

these consultations are planned and fixed from the start.