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[tidla]

was going to comment on the alistair campbell thing but..
seeing piers morgan on the show, did he sell out doing bgt??

[albitz]

He talks a lot of crap imo. Thinks Brown (his pal) is the best PM we ever had. The only one on the panel worth listening to is Max Hastings, he has more brains than the rest of them put together, and he is an honest man which is something that you could never accuse Alistair Cambell of being.
Morgan feels so strongly about Iraq because his brother is a serving soldier (which is fair enough) but he buys into all the other Nu Liebore lies, which I find incredible.

[tidla]

Alistair Cambell seems ok in himself not being "not totally honest"

[Dishevelled Den]

Well, one was an unelected individual at the heart of government who, curiously, held great sway with the elite of that very government and the other was, and indeed is, a vacuous nonentity who represents all that is bad in this celebrity obsessed culture.

Together they stand as an example of the rapidly declining standards now being exhibited by the state broadcaster in its perverted lust to garner audience ratings by capturing 'trendy' individuals and have them deport themselves as being the font of messages worth hearing by the great unwashed.

I think we all should be proud of our national broadcasting organisations and how they go to such extremes to educate, inform and entertain us - with the best talent available. 8-) 8-)

[albitz]

The programme was on a completely different (higher) level in the days of yore when Robin Day was in the chair.

[Dishevelled Den]

The programme was on a completely different (higher) level in the days of yore when Robin Day was in the chair.

It was a different country then my son

[albitz]

It certainly was Z.

[Banjax]

it seems the government are spitting their dummy out over Alistair Campbell being on the show....who do they think they are?

I watched in horror last night as Piers Morgan made good point after good point, what the hell is the world coming to when Piers Moron makes sense? He's wrong about Iraq tho - I couldn't give a monkeys why Saddam was booted out....only that he was and we get his lovely oil 
Max "Hitler" Hastings was his usual pompous self, Spock seemed to be planning a revolution, the ex LibDem mp was a non-entity, Alistair Campbell batted everything away with ease, despite the record of the government - not a bad one last night but a bit rudderless.......why are we still banging on about why we went to Iraq? We need the Oil, Saddam was a bar steward, end of story.

[Dishevelled Den]

it seems the government are spitting their dummy out over Alistair Campbell being on the show....who do they think they are?

I watched in horror last night as Piers Morgan made good point after good point, what the hell is the world coming to when Piers Moron makes sense? He's wrong about Iraq tho - I couldn't give a monkeys why Saddam was booted out....only that he was and we get his lovely oil 
Max "Hitler" Hastings was his usual pompous self, Spock seemed to be planning a revolution, the ex LibDem mp was a non-entity, Alistair Campbell batted everything away with ease, despite the record of the government - not a bad one last night but a bit rudderless.......why are we still banging on about why we went to Iraq? We need the Oil, Saddam was a bar steward, end of story.

why are we still banging on about why we went to Iraq? We need the Oil, Saddam was a bar steward, end of story

I would imagine BJ it's because Mr Campbell and his cronies told us that we were in peril of the weapons of mass destruction held by the despot and that immediate action was required to deal with this.  No mention of oil or regime change.

Alistair Campbell batted everything away with ease, despite the record of the government

That's one of the more disturbing aspects of political zealots such as Mr Campbell - the absolute conviction that they were right.  This, despite the more than reasonable assertion, based on the mess we're presently in, that they wrong - very wrong.

[Banjax]

it seems the government are spitting their dummy out over Alistair Campbell being on the show....who do they think they are?

I watched in horror last night as Piers Morgan made good point after good point, what the hell is the world coming to when Piers Moron makes sense? He's wrong about Iraq tho - I couldn't give a monkeys why Saddam was booted out....only that he was and we get his lovely oil 
Max "Hitler" Hastings was his usual pompous self, Spock seemed to be planning a revolution, the ex LibDem mp was a non-entity, Alistair Campbell batted everything away with ease, despite the record of the government - not a bad one last night but a bit rudderless.......why are we still banging on about why we went to Iraq? We need the Oil, Saddam was a bar steward, end of story.

why are we still banging on about why we went to Iraq? We need the Oil, Saddam was a bar steward, end of story

I would imagine BJ it's because Mr Campbell and his cronies told us that we were in peril of the weapons of mass destruction held by the despot and that immediate action was required to deal with this.  No mention of oil or regime change.

Alistair Campbell batted everything away with ease, despite the record of the government

That's one of the more disturbing aspects of political zealots such as Mr Campbell - the absolute conviction that they were right.  This, despite the more than reasonable assertion, based on the mess we're presently in, that they wrong - very wrong.

Being the cynic I am, I never bought into the WMD argument (I remember arguing this with a colleague in the TA who was looking forward to going....as most in the armed forces were, it's their reason d'etre) Saddam never had any WMD left, but it suited his purposes (controlling his people through fear, as well as keeping neighbours at bay) for everyone to believe he had stockpiles of missiles armed and ready to strike - I genuinely think Saddam knew that the US and allies wouldn't dare attack in defiance of UN resolutions and was calling their bluff - he was wrong. We had to get rid of him Zulu, by fair means or foul and I rarely support war, much less governments who take us into war illegally, But Saddam was a tyrant and a tyrant that we were happy to deal with for decades - I never was - he got his comeuppance, sadly Iraq is a mess and many thousands have died (but many thousands were dying before we went in).
The only error the government made was not just holding their hands up and saying "Look, the guy is a tyrant, he holds 25% of the earths most valuable resource and we and the USA cannot allow him to continue"

[Pitchfork]

An Iraqui for whom I worked for a while told me that the reasons for invading was that Oil is paid for in Dollars, & the expectation was that they would then spend the money with US businesses on armaments etc.
The problem was that Sadam chose to spend it with the Russians so that the money did not circulate back to the US, hence the need to dispose of him so that it once again circulated in 'the right direction'
(This was from the son of a former Iraqui Prime Minister who fled the country in 1966)

[Dishevelled Den]

it seems the government are spitting their dummy out over Alistair Campbell being on the show....who do they think they are?

I watched in horror last night as Piers Morgan made good point after good point, what the hell is the world coming to when Piers Moron makes sense? He's wrong about Iraq tho - I couldn't give a monkeys why Saddam was booted out....only that he was and we get his lovely oil 
Max "Hitler" Hastings was his usual pompous self, Spock seemed to be planning a revolution, the ex LibDem mp was a non-entity, Alistair Campbell batted everything away with ease, despite the record of the government - not a bad one last night but a bit rudderless.......why are we still banging on about why we went to Iraq? We need the Oil, Saddam was a bar steward, end of story.

why are we still banging on about why we went to Iraq? We need the Oil, Saddam was a bar steward, end of story

I would imagine BJ it's because Mr Campbell and his cronies told us that we were in peril of the weapons of mass destruction held by the despot and that immediate action was required to deal with this.  No mention of oil or regime change.

Alistair Campbell batted everything away with ease, despite the record of the government

That's one of the more disturbing aspects of political zealots such as Mr Campbell - the absolute conviction that they were right.  This, despite the more than reasonable assertion, based on the mess we're presently in, that they wrong - very wrong.

Being the cynic I am, I never bought into the WMD argument (I remember arguing this with a colleague in the TA who was looking forward to going....as most in the armed forces were, it's their reason d'etre) Saddam never had any WMD left, but it suited his purposes (controlling his people through fear, as well as keeping neighbours at bay) for everyone to believe he had stockpiles of missiles armed and ready to strike - I genuinely think Saddam knew that the US and allies wouldn't dare attack in defiance of UN resolutions and was calling their bluff - he was wrong. We had to get rid of him Zulu, by fair means or foul and I rarely support war, much less governments who take us into war illegally, But Saddam was a tyrant and a tyrant that we were happy to deal with for decades - I never was - he got his comeuppance, sadly Iraq is a mess and many thousands have died (but many thousands were dying before we went in).
The only error the government made was not just holding their hands up and saying "Look, the guy is a tyrant, he holds 25% of the earths most valuable resource and we and the USA cannot allow him to continue"

The only error the government made was not just holding their hands up and saying "Look, the guy is a tyrant, he holds 25% of the earths most valuable resource and we and the USA cannot allow him to continue

I would suggest that the government of the day made more than one error in this matter but on the substance of the quote, I wonder why they didn't just do that.

Having failed to inform parliament and the nation of the real reasons for the proposed military action should those decision makers not be required to answer for their actions?  Actions that, as a matter of record, have cost this nation dearly in terms of lives lost/maimed and money spent in the pursuit of war the legalities of which remain questionable but, more disturbingly, have been a disaster for the people of Iraq and have destabilised the region for the foreseeable future?

[Banjax]

sorry to be blunt Zulu (I'm actually busy today!! ) but oil is and will be the driving force for all western nations until it runs out - why the government wont just say that is beyond me (well actually they'd be crucified in the media - but who listens to the media?)
the cost in lives on both sides, while utterly tragic, is a price I'm surethey've factored in to the equation - however distasteful it may be.
Like I say it's blunt and simplistic but thats the cold hard reality in my opinion - the job had to be done 

[albitz]

sorry to be blunt Zulu (I'm actually busy today!! ) but oil is and will be the driving force for all western nations until it runs out - why the government wont just say that is beyond me (well actually they'd be crucified in the media - but who listens to the media?)
the cost in lives on both sides, while utterly tragic, is a price I'm surethey've factored in to the equation - however distasteful it may be.
Like I say it's blunt and simplistic but thats the cold hard reality in my opinion - the job had to be done 

So it was a complete waste of time on all levels then. The majority of oil drilling rights in Iraq were recently sold by the Iraqi govt to - the CHINESE.

[Banjax]

sorry to be blunt Zulu (I'm actually busy today!! ) but oil is and will be the driving force for all western nations until it runs out - why the government wont just say that is beyond me (well actually they'd be crucified in the media - but who listens to the media?)
the cost in lives on both sides, while utterly tragic, is a price I'm surethey've factored in to the equation - however distasteful it may be.
Like I say it's blunt and simplistic but thats the cold hard reality in my opinion - the job had to be done 

So it was a complete waste of time on all levels then. The majority of oil drilling rights in Iraq were recently sold by the Iraqi govt to - the CHINESE.

the main benificiaries are oil companies Shell, Petronas, Total, Exxon Mobil, etc  China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) did bid for large chunks of the biggest oilfields..........and where they bid the most, they won - its our old friend capitilism again Albs - it'll bite you everytime, US and UK took the brunt of the cost and everyone else gets dibs on the juicy oil contracts, because Iraq will sell the rights to the highest bidder - quite rightly too as they've a country to rebuild 

Still doesn't make going in and securing shedloads of oil wrong