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Author Topic: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...  (Read 1680 times)

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Banjax

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #15 on: 17 June 2010, 07:45:25 »

I'm not entirely convinced you know what a debate actually is Nick   :o

1) Dig in your entrenched position
2) cut and paste some right wing websites
3) get really upset when anyone points out that maybe on the balance of probability you might, just conceivably not be 100% accurate




i'm quite happy to apply scientific principles and rigour to the argument - i've never seen you do the same in all honesty - IPCC have been guilty of over egging the pudding (i never saw the need) doesnt mean........................christ - i've just remembered its pointless debating with you  - what am i doing wasting a perfectly good day? ::)
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Dishevelled Den

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #16 on: 17 June 2010, 09:17:30 »

Quote
I'm not entirely convinced you know what a debate actually is Nick   :o

1) Dig in your entrenched position
2) cut and paste some right wing websites
3) get really upset when anyone points out that maybe on the balance of probability you might, just conceivably not be 100% accurate




i'm quite happy to apply scientific principles and rigour to the argument - i've never seen you do the same in all honesty - IPCC have been guilty of over egging the pudding (i never saw the need) doesnt mean........................christ - i've just remembered its pointless debating with you  - what am i doing wasting a perfectly good day? ::)


Is it not telling BJ, that those who propose the AGW theory are so convinced they’re right they will not debate the matter in case the outcome doesn't fit their analysis of the problem?

A position exploited so often by one of the main protagonists in the issue - former Vice-President Gore.

Whether this warming is being caused by human activity or the sun and natural cycles (my choice) is largely irrelevant because anything we try to do about it is pretty pointless.

For anyone to suggest that we, as a species, can alter the planetary weather patterns - especially the global temperature - is debateable in my view when the Coriolis Effect at the very minimum ensures that there is, and will continue to be, a wide difference in weather and temperature between the hemispheres and indeed locally within those areas.  Take other phenomena into account and its plain to see that we are really inconsequential in the context of global weather patterns.

What’s the point in debate? – Because those pushing the AGW theory of planetary warming want to adopt extreme measures to try and stop this.  When the time comes for you to pay more to simply exist – in terms of increased energy costs, increased commodity costs, altered lifestyle and so on will you be satisfied to accept these changes to your personal circumstances because others have told you that there’s no other option?

Furthermore, this matter should be vigorously debated due to the large number of individuals and bodies scenting the whiff of money in the air, the realisation by governments that this situation affords them the means to push an agenda that strengthens their influence over their citizens – witness the fear that President Obama is likely to peruse a more rigorous path to energy cap and trade measures in the wake of the Gulf oil spill.

If you’re happy enough to sit back and take the medicine spoon-fed by the likes of the IPCC, the United Nations, Al Gore, Tim Yeo, Ed Milliband, Zac Goldsmith, Chris Hunne, David Cameron, President Obama and so on, then I’m surprised.

Nick should be congratulated for his tenacity in this matter because there’s no point complaining after the event - when we’ll be the poorer, in many ways, as a result of this perverted attempt to influence the planets atmospheric behaviour by the blunt means of taxation, pricing and restriction of freedom.
« Last Edit: 17 June 2010, 10:15:59 by Zulu77 »
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Nickbat

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #17 on: 17 June 2010, 14:42:30 »

Quote
I'm not entirely convinced you know what a debate actually is Nick   :o

1) Dig in your entrenched position
2) cut and paste some right wing websites
3) get really upset when anyone points out that maybe on the balance of probability you might, just conceivably not be 100% accurate




i'm quite happy to apply scientific principles and rigour to the argument - i've never seen you do the same in all honesty - IPCC have been guilty of over egging the pudding (i never saw the need) doesnt mean........................christ - i've just remembered its pointless debating with you  - what am i doing wasting a perfectly good day? ::)


I can't let this latest bout of nastiness lie without comment.

I know perfectly well what a debate is.

I can't recall you ever debating the science with me. Furthermore, I fail to see anything wrong with posting links that support my views.

But, since you desire rigorous debate, tell me why the Pacific Islands are not sinking, why are the ice caps are in a similar condition to 30 years ago (and why there was less ice earlier this century)? Perhaps you can tell me where I can find the tropospheric hot-spot, which is supposed to accompany global warming. Perhaps you can tell me why hurricane activity has not increased in line with CO2. Maybe you even know the effects of station drop-out and urban heat islands on land-based temperature. And, finally of course, maybe you can tell me why the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than today.

There you go. I haven't posted any link from an alleged "right-wing" site, or indeed from any site. These are all my own observations. It may be turn out that I am incorrect in any one of my assertions, but the fact remains that there is much doubt about the theory of global warming. Science is not about consensus, it is about discovering the truth and that is why sceptical argument should be welcomed, not stifled or ridiculed.

« Last Edit: 17 June 2010, 14:44:00 by Nickbat »
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #18 on: 17 June 2010, 19:48:45 »

I'm forcing myself to debate, but its too hot.. ;D

so probably I'll pass that..

here is my brief opinion,

no matter who says what , human kind anyway damage everything you see around,
including the ocean, soil and athmosphere..
and weather climate is not an independant subject from those parameters..

end of..



« Last Edit: 17 June 2010, 19:53:00 by cem_devecioglu »
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Nickbat

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #19 on: 18 June 2010, 23:53:27 »

Quote
the world's foremost scientists
 

Here are 108 of them, Banjax!

“We, the undersigned, having assessed the relevant scientific evidence, do not find convincing support for the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide are causing, or will in the foreseeable future cause, dangerous global warming."

http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

 :y :y
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #20 on: 19 June 2010, 21:01:10 »

Quote
Quote
the world's foremost scientists
 

Here are 108 of them, Banjax!

“We, the undersigned, having assessed the relevant scientific evidence, do not find convincing support for the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide are causing, or will in the foreseeable future cause, dangerous global warming."

http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

 :y :y


 ;D ;D


probably they need to see a a flyin duck start to burn and drop on their head to believe.. ;D

athmosphere is a chemical mixture of gases which have a finite amount..

if you continue to pump CO2 , eventually the mixture wont be the same..

so my conclusion is at least those 108 failed from maths and chemistry ;D
« Last Edit: 19 June 2010, 21:01:52 by cem_devecioglu »
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Nickbat

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #21 on: 19 June 2010, 21:22:42 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
the world's foremost scientists
 

Here are 108 of them, Banjax!

“We, the undersigned, having assessed the relevant scientific evidence, do not find convincing support for the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide are causing, or will in the foreseeable future cause, dangerous global warming."

http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289

 :y :y


 ;D ;D


probably they need to see a a flyin duck start to burn and drop on their head to believe.. ;D

athmosphere is a chemical mixture of gases which have a finite amount..

if you continue to pump CO2 , eventually the mixture wont be the same..

so my conclusion is at least those 108 failed from maths and chemistry ;D


If you look at the qualifications of those people, I can only think you are being sarcastic.  ::)
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #22 on: 19 June 2010, 22:22:57 »

Nickbat, qualifications cant change the result of simple maths..

The reason those people made a declaration is that they want to stop the abuse of "Global Warming" by the system.. And if you carefully analyse the declaration there is still an open door..

" We, the undersigned, having assessed the relevant scientific evidence, do not find convincing support for the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide are causing, or will in the foreseeable future cause, dangerous global warming"

means there are some evidences but we are not convinced enough   ;D

"foreseeable future" thats the most funny part..

science depends on mathematical certainites..

foreseeable future ? how many years 5-10-100 ?


I'll say what they depend on , CO2 released today not an important amount in their eyes compared to cubic volume of athmosphere, but civilizations dont stay the same, those amounts increase geometrically and  obviously things will change..

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Nickbat

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #23 on: 19 June 2010, 22:54:55 »

Quote
Nickbat, qualifications cant change the result of simple maths..

The reason those people made a declaration is that they want to stop the abuse of "Global Warming" by the system.. And if you carefully analyse the declaration there is still an open door..

" We, the undersigned, having assessed the relevant scientific evidence, do not find convincing support for the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide are causing, or will in the foreseeable future cause, dangerous global warming"

means there are some evidences but we are not convinced enough   ;D

"foreseeable future" thats the most funny part..

science depends on mathematical certainites..

foreseeable future ? how many years 5-10-100 ?


I'll say what they depend on , CO2 released today not an important amount in their eyes compared to cubic volume of athmosphere, but civilizations dont stay the same, those amounts increase geometrically and  obviously things will change..


Oh, for goodness' sake, Cem! :o

I am sorry to say it but if you think for one moment that these people do not understand simple maths and that your knowledge of the atmospheric residency of CO2, along with its infra-red absorption spectrum, safe ppm limits and expected increase over the next century, is somehow better than theirs then, frankly, I simply don't buy it.  :(

I would have thought that any evidence as examined by these highly-qualified scientists (and they infinitely more qualified than you or I) that our advanced society may NOT be causing dangerous damage to the climate (bio-environment aside) than that must surely warrant a sigh of relief. Unless, of course, you want western society to return to the Stone Age.  ::)
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: For Lizzie, Banjax et al...
« Reply #24 on: 20 June 2010, 10:41:45 »

Quote
Quote
Nickbat, qualifications cant change the result of simple maths..

The reason those people made a declaration is that they want to stop the abuse of "Global Warming" by the system.. And if you carefully analyse the declaration there is still an open door..

" We, the undersigned, having assessed the relevant scientific evidence, do not find convincing support for the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide are causing, or will in the foreseeable future cause, dangerous global warming"

means there are some evidences but we are not convinced enough   ;D

"foreseeable future" thats the most funny part..

science depends on mathematical certainites..

foreseeable future ? how many years 5-10-100 ?


I'll say what they depend on , CO2 released today not an important amount in their eyes compared to cubic volume of athmosphere, but civilizations dont stay the same, those amounts increase geometrically and  obviously things will change..


Oh, for goodness' sake, Cem! :o

I am sorry to say it but if you think for one moment that these people do not understand simple maths and that your knowledge of the atmospheric residency of CO2, along with its infra-red absorption spectrum, safe ppm limits and expected increase over the next century, is somehow better than theirs then, frankly, I simply don't buy it.  :(

I would have thought that any evidence as examined by these highly-qualified scientists (and they infinitely more qualified than you or I) that our advanced society may NOT be causing dangerous damage to the climate (bio-environment aside) than that must surely warrant a sigh of relief. Unless, of course, you want western society to return to the Stone Age.  ::)

 ;D

2+2=4 neither 5 nor 3..

And I dont need any links to proove that..

as I have stated they understand simple maths , this is why they let the door open.. As I've explained above..

just for a moment, think of athmosphere as a vessel..

you are transferring fossil fuels and all others  (including nuclear) from outside the system into the vessel .. and burn all of them in the vessel..

do you think it will be same inside the vessel
before and after the combustion process ?

anyone who says yes, I'm afraid to say, need to tear the diploma and restart from the beginning of school.. ;D
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