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[Nickbat]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7870342/Forced-adoption-is-a-truly-dreadful-scandal.html

As a parent of two wonderful young children, I really feel an empathy for those who have had their kids wrenched from their hands. 

Read the comments.

What sort of society have we made?   

[Vamps]

judge said he had no power to stop social services summarily withdrawing them from their local school to be sent to a new home

Absolute rubbish, only a judge can make such a decision...........

[Vamps]

Remember the Baby P threads, social workers condemned for not removing children, should we just get rid of social workers and leave children and the disabled and the elderly to fend for themselves? time to buy a ford..........

[Vamps]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7870342/Forced-adoption-is-a-truly-dreadful-scandal.html

As a parent of two wonderful young children, I really feel an empathy for those who have had their kids wrenched from their hands. 

Read the comments.

What sort of society have we made?   

You made a post and then went offline, what does that tell us..............................

[Lizzie_Zoom]

This is a very complex issue.

I personally know of a mother who lost one of her children to social services, with them breaking the law on 9 counts to do so - all recorded in writing after a ruling by a court judge - but still did not regain possession of the child.

Conversely I know of one couple with multiple children living in absolute squalor that makes me feel very sick just thinking of the situation!  Social services stay clear for reasons only known to themselves, but they are the ones to gather the evidence.

As Vamps points out Baby P showed the other side of the debate, with a child losing its life with social services, and other agencies, not taking the action expected.

It does seem to me a very complicated emotional issue, in the hands of infallible humans, that can go very wrong either way.

Social services in particular can be so easily "damned if they do, damned if they don't"!!

[Nickbat]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7870342/Forced-adoption-is-a-truly-dreadful-scandal.html

As a parent of two wonderful young children, I really feel an empathy for those who have had their kids wrenched from their hands. 

Read the comments.

What sort of society have we made?   

You made a post and then went offline, what does that tell us..............................

err, I went to bed?  :-? :-? :-? :-?

[Dishevelled Den]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7870342/Forced-adoption-is-a-truly-dreadful-scandal.html

As a parent of two wonderful young children, I really feel an empathy for those who have had their kids wrenched from their hands. 

Read the comments.

What sort of society have we made?   

You made a post and then went offline, what does that tell us..............................

err, I went to bed?  :-? :-? :-? :-?

I really must speak to you about this reckless behaviour Nick

[plym ian]

This happened to my out laws a while ago cause there house was a mess and they were classed as bad parents (I will admit there not the best) any way got the kids back after 6 months. Then they moved now social services can't find them as they don't send kids to school how's that for good parenting

[Amigo]

My sister holds a senior position with Worcester social services. Alot of problems do lie with parents of many ie 4, 5,6 or more children who live on benefits. Have as many kids as you like if you can support them financially & have the time to give the love & input they need. There are however some "families" who make it their career to keep popping kids out just to qualify for benefits. Many of these can & do love & care for their offspring but many can't or don't.
    Either way why should the rest of us pay for the privilege ie rent council tax, food ,clothes, everything. One child could be considered a mistake despite being loved & well brought up.
    Stop benefits after the first child for those who can't/won't work.

[Vamps]

This happened to my out laws a while ago cause there house was a mess and they were classed as bad parents (I will admit there not the best) any way got the kids back after 6 months. Then they moved now social services can't find them as they don't send kids to school how's that for good parenting

If you know where they are you should inform the authorities, Child Protection is every one's responsibility, how would you feel, knowing what you know, if something were to happen?

[jerry]

the better half works on behalf of childrens services and recently worked on a new project aimed at keeping children with their parents. Anyone who has had anything to do with this field I am sure can recount some eyepopping stories, but whilst the safety and wellbeing of the child is paramount bear in mind that there is a fiscal element to this that we, as taxpayers, finance. A child that maybe has a bath once a week and lives in filth , is poorly clothed and fed and behind in behavioural development due to lack of interaction with their parents will not be removed unless there is a severe threat to themselves. So what do you do? OK , you monitor and support, you provide respite care, you try and get them to go to parenting classes. Obviously various things can lead to parents not acting as they should, it might be that they themselves never had a good upbringing so they have no point of reference, it might be a break up of a marriage or financial hardship that has tipped them over the edge or drug/alchohol abuse. But , you know what, there are many that are just plain lazy who dont want to really make the effort and are content to live on benefits and spend their money on mobile phones/fags/booze/drugs etc rather than their kids. And we keep just throwing money at them whether it be in support  or benefits. You would all be truly shocked at the costs of this. Put simply, some people should never have kids. Just one quote of many is one parent who when my wife suggested he needed to interact with his child more, maybe read a book , replied "I get payed when I go to work, I dont get paid to read to him....I never did that with my other three", to which she replied "yes, and they were all taken into care". Go figure. Me, I know what I'd have said to him....

[Seth]

What a tragic mess eh ...........

After successfully raising four children of our own, we now find that there's very few nights (or even holidays), when Mrs Sethsmate and I are actually on our own here.

We're loving every minute of watching (and being part of), the 'third generation' growing up - if only all children were as dearly cherished as our grandchildren (and children) are.

I've now got a tear in my eye - honestly.

[venom]

This is a hard one, we know someone that fosters and at the mo they have 4 month old little girl and she really is a cutie.
They got a phone call one afternoon to get to the hospital right away and pick this baby up, the poor child had a spiral fracture to her left arm but on x-raying her she had two old fractures to both of her legs and one to her ribs which were untreated and the doctors estimate they happened when she was 5 WEEKS OLD        .
Now surly this falls to the health visitor not picking this up

Now in the time we have known them they only have had abused kids 
So I don't know what we want Social services to do remove any child that they THINK is under risk or only WHEN they can prove they are at risk I just don't know.

[Nickbat]

This is a hard one, we know someone that fosters and at the mo they have 4 month old little girl and she really is a cutie.
They got a phone call one afternoon to get to the hospital right away and pick this baby up, the poor child had a spiral fracture to her left arm but on x-raying her she had two old fractures to both of her legs and one to her ribs which were untreated and the doctors estimate they happened when she was 5 WEEKS OLD        .
Now surly this falls to the health visitor not picking this up

Now in the time we have known them they only have had abused kids 
So I don't know what we want Social services to do remove any child that they THINK is under risk or only WHEN they can prove they are at risk I just don't know.

No one is denying that physical child abuse resulting in the injuries you have mentioned above clearly warrants the removal of the child to a safer environment. There is clear evidence here. What is worrying is the cases where there is no evidence, merely supposition and hearsay. The point is that the forced removal of a child from its parents is not to be taken lightly as the psychological trauma for the child can last a lifetime. A child can bond with the worst of mothers. If the child is not being physically hurt, the question is then what sort of [psychological] pain would it suffer if separated from the only person they live/relate to, even if, in our eyes, such a parent is a ne'er do well.

As you say it's difficult. No one is denying that.