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[PhilRich]

At the beginning of 1942, Fighter Command had 60 Squadrons of Spitfires.   During the dash through the channel of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, in February, the FW190 was first encountered.  Despite bad weather, the ships were sighted by Spitfires of 91 Squadron. Spitfires subsequently fought a series of battles against the FW190.  The Mk5 found itself outmatched, losing 59 in April.  The FW190 had a BMW engine which outpaced the Mk5 Spitfire.  In May, the Bf109G made its appearance, optimized for high altitude operations.  The first of the Spitfire Mk6s had begun to appear during April with 616 Squadron. This was intended for high altitude operations also.  In direct response to the FW190, the Spitfire Mk9 arrived, another stop gap fighter, that was hugely successful, 5665 being built.

In June an FW190 landed at Pembrey, after its pilot had become lost!  The RAF were able to do direct tests against the Spitfire and found that it proved superior in all aspects except for turning.  Some Mk5's had their wing tips clipped, decreasing wingspan by 4 feet.  This gave the "clipped wing" Spitfire a faster rate of roll.  Fitted with a supercharged Merlin, this gave the spitfire an equivalent rate of speed at low level to the FW190.

The first Spitfire 9s went to 64 Squadron (Hornchurch) in July.  It was put through its paces against the captured FW190 and was found to compare favourably.

Hope this helps with the 'Clipped Wing' discussion

[Lizzie_Zoom]

At the beginning of 1942, Fighter Command had 60 Squadrons of Spitfires.   During the dash through the channel of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, in February, the FW190 was first encountered.  Despite bad weather, the ships were sighted by Spitfires of 91 Squadron. Spitfires subsequently fought a series of battles against the FW190.  The Mk5 found itself outmatched, losing 59 in April.  The FW190 had a BMW engine which outpaced the Mk5 Spitfire.  In May, the Bf109G made its appearance, optimized for high altitude operations.  The first of the Spitfire Mk6s had begun to appear during April with 616 Squadron. This was intended for high altitude operations also.  In direct response to the FW190, the Spitfire Mk9 arrived, another stop gap fighter, that was hugely successful, 5665 being built.

In June an FW190 landed at Pembrey, after its pilot had become lost!  The RAF were able to do direct tests against the Spitfire and found that it proved superior in all aspects except for turning.  Some Mk5's had their wing tips clipped, decreasing wingspan by 4 feet.  This gave the "clipped wing" Spitfire a faster rate of roll.  Fitted with a supercharged Merlin, this gave the spitfire an equivalent rate of speed at low level to the FW190.

The first Spitfire 9s went to 64 Squadron (Hornchurch) in July.  It was put through its paces against the captured FW190 and was found to compare favourably.

Hope this helps with the 'Clipped Wing' discussion

That is great historical info Phil!!

[PhilRich]

At the beginning of 1942, Fighter Command had 60 Squadrons of Spitfires.   During the dash through the channel of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, in February, the FW190 was first encountered.  Despite bad weather, the ships were sighted by Spitfires of 91 Squadron. Spitfires subsequently fought a series of battles against the FW190.  The Mk5 found itself outmatched, losing 59 in April.  The FW190 had a BMW engine which outpaced the Mk5 Spitfire.  In May, the Bf109G made its appearance, optimized for high altitude operations.  The first of the Spitfire Mk6s had begun to appear during April with 616 Squadron. This was intended for high altitude operations also.  In direct response to the FW190, the Spitfire Mk9 arrived, another stop gap fighter, that was hugely successful, 5665 being built.

In June an FW190 landed at Pembrey, after its pilot had become lost!  The RAF were able to do direct tests against the Spitfire and found that it proved superior in all aspects except for turning.  Some Mk5's had their wing tips clipped, decreasing wingspan by 4 feet.  This gave the "clipped wing" Spitfire a faster rate of roll.  Fitted with a supercharged Merlin, this gave the spitfire an equivalent rate of speed at low level to the FW190.

The first Spitfire 9s went to 64 Squadron (Hornchurch) in July.  It was put through its paces against the captured FW190 and was found to compare favourably.

Hope this helps with the 'Clipped Wing' discussion

That is great historical info Phil!!

None of the credit is mine though Lizzie, I Plaigurised it from tinternet!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

At the beginning of 1942, Fighter Command had 60 Squadrons of Spitfires.   During the dash through the channel of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, in February, the FW190 was first encountered.  Despite bad weather, the ships were sighted by Spitfires of 91 Squadron. Spitfires subsequently fought a series of battles against the FW190.  The Mk5 found itself outmatched, losing 59 in April.  The FW190 had a BMW engine which outpaced the Mk5 Spitfire.  In May, the Bf109G made its appearance, optimized for high altitude operations.  The first of the Spitfire Mk6s had begun to appear during April with 616 Squadron. This was intended for high altitude operations also.  In direct response to the FW190, the Spitfire Mk9 arrived, another stop gap fighter, that was hugely successful, 5665 being built.

In June an FW190 landed at Pembrey, after its pilot had become lost!  The RAF were able to do direct tests against the Spitfire and found that it proved superior in all aspects except for turning.  Some Mk5's had their wing tips clipped, decreasing wingspan by 4 feet.  This gave the "clipped wing" Spitfire a faster rate of roll.  Fitted with a supercharged Merlin, this gave the spitfire an equivalent rate of speed at low level to the FW190.

The first Spitfire 9s went to 64 Squadron (Hornchurch) in July.  It was put through its paces against the captured FW190 and was found to compare favourably.

Hope this helps with the 'Clipped Wing' discussion

That is great historical info Phil!!

None of the credit is mine though Lizzie, I Plaigurised it from tinternet!

 

That is why then Phil you didn't mention that the Focke-Wulf 190 stated was the A-8 series (don't worry just being clever!! ) which had a optimum speed of 408 mph @ 21,000 feet, whereas the F190 D-9 was introduced from 1943 and had an optimum speed of 426 mph @ 21,000 feet.  The latter was used against the B17's bombing Germany to initially good effect, but with the introduction of the American P51 Mustang escorting the bombers, their effect fell away - until the ME 262 jet fighter was brought into use in 1944 that could have caused absolute havoc.  However, due to the mass bombing raids the Germans lacked the fuel and spare parts for the ME 262's (or any other Luftwaffe plane!!) so never achieved their potential - phew!!

[feeutfo]

At the beginning of 1942, Fighter Command had 60 Squadrons of Spitfires.   During the dash through the channel of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, in February, the FW190 was first encountered.  Despite bad weather, the ships were sighted by Spitfires of 91 Squadron. Spitfires subsequently fought a series of battles against the FW190.  The Mk5 found itself outmatched, losing 59 in April.  The FW190 had a BMW engine which outpaced the Mk5 Spitfire.  In May, the Bf109G made its appearance, optimized for high altitude operations.  The first of the Spitfire Mk6s had begun to appear during April with 616 Squadron. This was intended for high altitude operations also.  In direct response to the FW190, the Spitfire Mk9 arrived, another stop gap fighter, that was hugely successful, 5665 being built.

In June an FW190 landed at Pembrey, after its pilot had become lost!  The RAF were able to do direct tests against the Spitfire and found that it proved superior in all aspects except for turning.  Some Mk5's had their wing tips clipped, decreasing wingspan by 4 feet.  This gave the "clipped wing" Spitfire a faster rate of roll.  Fitted with a supercharged Merlin, this gave the spitfire an equivalent rate of speed at low level to the FW190.

The first Spitfire 9s went to 64 Squadron (Hornchurch) in July.  It was put through its paces against the captured FW190 and was found to compare favourably.

Hope this helps with the 'Clipped Wing' discussion

It does indeed, although I thought some where clipped for carrier operations near the end of the war? The clipped one we saw at Duxford was painted navy blue and had twin opposing 4 blade props iirc. Although I seem to remember that one never saw service or something odd, maybe a one off? (a rusty special figment of my imagination probably, twas a couple of years ago now  )

Duxford was something special, grass runway so no jets in think? But Lancaster, b52's (flying fortress?) spits of numerous era, mustangs and me109's. Don't tell anyone I said so but the 109's sounded best, shhhhh 

Thanks for posting Mark, awesome. Jet (eurofighter?) looks like it's about to stall

[feeutfo]

Nope, there is a concrete runway at Duxford, didn't use it perhaps... Def landing on grass though.

[Terbs]

Can confirm it was the Spit and Hurricane....they flew over my house low level, then turned for Chesham (WIM), then returned to again fly low level and this time headed for Strike Command at High Wycombe.....then heard the engines, but no visuals, heading south, I assume to Shoreham, where on South Today, it showed Spits, Hurricane, and a ME 109 ready for the airshow over the weekend.

[Terbs]

Couple of links show Contra props

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=FbgpH2nrn-A&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8BUNJYtOo


Also notice 'Clipped Wing'

[Kevin Wood]

Thanks for posting Mark, awesome. Jet (eurofighter?) looks like it's about to stal

The difference in angle of attack throughout is quite telling.

Been a few flypasts of historic WW2 sites today and a lot of activity around Bournemouth, or at least that was the case when I checked the NOTAMS before flying yesterday (for 42 nail-biting minutes scraping around between about 500 and 1500 feet). 

Kevin

[Richgm]

This is a pic of the spitfire and the hurricane that were over London yesterday.

[Terbs]

Thanks for posting Mark, awesome. Jet (eurofighter?) looks like it's about to stal

The difference in angle of attack throughout is quite telling.

Been a few flypasts of historic WW2 sites today and a lot of activity around Bournemouth, or at least that was the case when I checked the NOTAMS before flying yesterday (for 42 nail-biting minutes scraping around between about 500 and 1500 feet). 

Kevin

Bournemouth Air Festival been on since Thursday till Sunday, mate.

http://www.bournemouthair.co.uk/

[feeutfo]

Couple of links show Contra props

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=FbgpH2nrn-A&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ8BUNJYtOo


Also notice 'Clipped Wing'

contra props, that the term.   

check the low pass vid 11th clip down on the top link. pmsl 

[feeutfo]

At the beginning of 1942, Fighter Command had 60 Squadrons of Spitfires.   During the dash through the channel of the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, in February, the FW190 was first encountered.  Despite bad weather, the ships were sighted by Spitfires of 91 Squadron. Spitfires subsequently fought a series of battles against the FW190.  The Mk5 found itself outmatched, losing 59 in April.  The FW190 had a BMW engine which outpaced the Mk5 Spitfire.  In May, the Bf109G made its appearance, optimized for high altitude operations.  The first of the Spitfire Mk6s had begun to appear during April with 616 Squadron. This was intended for high altitude operations also.  In direct response to the FW190, the Spitfire Mk9 arrived, another stop gap fighter, that was hugely successful, 5665 being built.

In June an FW190 landed at Pembrey, after its pilot had become lost!  The RAF were able to do direct tests against the Spitfire and found that it proved superior in all aspects except for turning.  Some Mk5's had their wing tips clipped, decreasing wingspan by 4 feet.  This gave the "clipped wing" Spitfire a faster rate of roll.  Fitted with a supercharged Merlin, this gave the spitfire an equivalent rate of speed at low level to the FW190.

The first Spitfire 9s went to 64 Squadron (Hornchurch) in July.  It was put through its paces against the captured FW190 and was found to compare favourably.

Hope this helps with the 'Clipped Wing' discussion

It does indeed, although I thought some where clipped for carrier operations near the end of the war? The clipped one we saw at Duxford was painted navy blue and had twin opposing 4 blade props iirc. Although I seem to remember that one never saw service or something odd, maybe a one off? (a rusty special figment of my imagination probably, twas a couple of years ago now  )

Duxford was something special, grass runway so no jets in think? But Lancaster, b52's (flying fortress?) spits of numerous era, mustangs and me109's. Don't tell anyone I said so but the 109's sounded best, shhhhh 

Thanks for posting Mark, awesome. Jet (eurofighter?) looks like it's about to stall

In fact the blue spit with clipped wing had folded up wings as well, when parked on the runway, another feature added, to save deck space. It's coming back to me now.

[feeutfo]

Could have been a 109 check the foot print in the link

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.aviapress.com/engl/icm/icm72131_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm%3FICM-72131&usg=__SvMz5td8c_6iv-5oJ-9o53nnthg=&h=236&w=400&sz=16&hl=en&start=59&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=cnNjgisEWPVjAM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dww2%2Bfighter%2Bme%2B109%26start%3D40%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1

[Terbs]

Could have been a 109 check the foot print in the link

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.aviapress.com/engl/icm/icm72131_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm%3FICM-72131&usg=__SvMz5td8c_6iv-5oJ-9o53nnthg=&h=236&w=400&sz=16&hl=en&start=59&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=cnNjgisEWPVjAM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dww2%2Bfighter%2Bme%2B109%26start%3D40%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1

If you are refering to the duo flying around yesterday, unfortunately, it was not a 109 !!!
When you have been weaned on airfields and aircraft as I was with a RAF daddy, plus thousands of hours on Flight Sims, you get to recognise most aircraft from engine sounds alone.
If you are an aircraft buff, you will know that already.
Where you are, Chris, like me, you must see a variety of types, out from White  Waltham, Wycombe Air Park....and not least Heathrow.
Contra Rotating props were/are fitted to a number of long range aircraft, like the Fairey Gannet, and the outstanding maritime aircraft, the Avro Shackleton.
Once on patrol, these aircraft shut down one prop on the engine to maintain a longer range and time in the air.
Contra's on spits (PR) were for the same reason and also  speed combined with the clipped wing