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[Mr Skrunts]

Some interesting points there Rufus.  But I am with the Admin team here.  I have seen a lot of threads start , develope and completely errumpt, simply because of one or 2 members (and with respect to all involved - they are generally the newer members) trying to get thier points accross in any way they can with out being open minded or agree to disagree.

If you follow most threads carefully you will see there is a balance and self moderate, and if the debate is reasonable the Admin just monitor it but are ready to pounce, delete or even NUKE the thread if they see fit.  I have even knon TheBoy to pull a thread, let everyone
.0 chill and then enable it, which in all honesty could well work in the future.

The 2 types of thread that allways seem to be the problem causers are the religeous and the racial ones.  A lot of us have a varied sence of humour and see past the problem and see it in the light hearted way it was meant. But if it hits a nerve for any reason with a single member then it becomes out of order and therefore best avoided, time and experiance on the forum help understand that.  But adding to that in some cases it's open to discussion.

Admin have a crucial job of striking a balance that could sway either way, plus, and one that a lot forget, keeping the site LEGAL.  We have known situations here where it has got out of hand it was so bad the site nearly got  the plug pulled because of all the agro that was happening in the threads.

So the point I started with of backing the Admin/Mod team is that what they have learnt over the last 4+ years does work and the reason that the OOF community grows on a weekly basis, no every thing will not please eveyone, but that's life, and judgeing by the ammount of people here every week they agree. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Some interesting points there Rufus.  But I am with the Admin team here.  I have seen a lot of threads start , develope and completely errumpt, simply because of one or 2 members (and with respect to all involved - they are generally the newer members) trying to get thier points accross in any way they can with out being open minded or agree to disagree.

If you follow most threads carefully you will see there is a balance and self moderate, and if the debate is reasonable the Admin just monitor it but are ready to pounce, delete or even NUKE the thread if they see fit.  I have even knon TheBoy to pull a thread, let everyone
.0 chill and then enable it, which in all honesty could well work in the future.

The 2 types of thread that allways seem to be the problem causers are the religeous and the racial ones.  A lot of us have a varied sence of humour and see past the problem and see it in the light hearted way it was meant. But if it hits a nerve for any reason with a single member then it becomes out of order and therefore best avoided, time and experiance on the forum help understand that.  But adding to that in some cases it's open to discussion.

Admin have a crucial job of striking a balance that could sway either way, plus, and one that a lot forget, keeping the site LEGAL.  We have known situations here where it has got out of hand it was so bad the site nearly got  the plug pulled because of all the agro that was happening in the threads.

So the point I started with of backing the Admin/Mod team is that what they have learnt over the last 4+ years does work and the reason that the OOF community grows on a weekly basis, no every thing will not please eveyone, but that's life, and judgeing by the ammount of people here every week they agree. 

You make a lot of the points I made earlier to Rufus Zulu Skruntie.  However you, nor did I, really answer his main question

Why was the thread on Religion so quickly 'pulled' after just the initial posting and your answer (which would have been followed by mine) when the one on "International Burn-a-Koran Day!" was not and ran for pages.  If you look at the opening gambit of the latter it was already full of contention, being certainly judged by me, Proz, and obviously The Boy who posted a warning, as being a very dangerous area for OOF debate, so why was that not pulled as well?

That is what Rufus is fairly asking, which I think is a fair point.

The Admins of course have the final say, but should we not have a set Standard; no religious threads?? :-/ :-/

[Mysteryman]

Some interesting points there Rufus.  But I am with the Admin team here.  I have seen a lot of threads start , develope and completely errumpt, simply because of one or 2 members (and with respect to all involved - they are generally the newer members) trying to get thier points accross in any way they can with out being open minded or agree to disagree.

If you follow most threads carefully you will see there is a balance and self moderate, and if the debate is reasonable the Admin just monitor it but are ready to pounce, delete or even NUKE the thread if they see fit.  I have even knon TheBoy to pull a thread, let everyone
.0 chill and then enable it, which in all honesty could well work in the future.

The 2 types of thread that allways seem to be the problem causers are the religeous and the racial ones.  A lot of us have a varied sence of humour and see past the problem and see it in the light hearted way it was meant. But if it hits a nerve for any reason with a single member then it becomes out of order and therefore best avoided, time and experiance on the forum help understand that.  But adding to that in some cases it's open to discussion.

Admin have a crucial job of striking a balance that could sway either way, plus, and one that a lot forget, keeping the site LEGAL.  We have known situations here where it has got out of hand it was so bad the site nearly got  the plug pulled because of all the agro that was happening in the threads.

So the point I started with of backing the Admin/Mod team is that what they have learnt over the last 4+ years does work and the reason that the OOF community grows on a weekly basis, no every thing will not please eveyone, but that's life, and judgeing by the ammount of people here every week they agree. 

In your rather dreams

[hotel21]

The point that should perhaps be bourne in mind here is that there are more than one mod/admin. 

Each may or may not read EVERYTHING posted on here and may choose to rely on the admin team sharing the load/responsibility.

Ultimately, thread content is read by one or more of the admin team in the same way that users do and, in common with all OOF users, each can make a descision on the post/thread as to whether it needs moderation or not.  Whats perceived as acceptable by one of the team may be wholly unacceptable to someone else, hence one may allow a posting to stay whilst another will delete or moderate it.  That said, extremes of toleration are few and far between.

Hopefully the admin team have a reasonably level standard of the acceptable and, as TB says, none of us want to have to re-tread the path that was on here some weeks ago when OOF was not a pretty place to be and the workload on the admin team to try and get it back onto track was horrendous.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The point that should perhaps be bourne in mind here is that there are more than one mod/admin. 

Each may or may not read EVERYTHING posted on here and may choose to rely on the admin team sharing the load/responsibility.

Ultimately, thread content is read by one or more of the admin team in the same way that users do and, in common with all OOF users, each can make a descision on the post/thread as to whether it needs moderation or not.  Whats perceived as acceptable by one of the team may be wholly unacceptable to someone else, hence one may allow a posting to stay whilst another will delete or moderate it.  That said, extremes of toleration are few and far between.

Hopefully the admin team have a reasonably level standard of the acceptable and, as TB says, none of us want to have to re-tread the path that was on here some weeks ago when OOF was not a pretty place to be and the workload on the admin team to try and get it back onto track was horrendous.

Ah, that is logical H, and very understandable 8-) 8-). Thanks

[steve_daly]

The point that should perhaps be bourne in mind here is that there are more than one mod/admin. 

Each may or may not read EVERYTHING posted on here and may choose to rely on the admin team sharing the load/responsibility.

Ultimately, thread content is read by one or more of the admin team in the same way that users do and, in common with all OOF users, each can make a descision on the post/thread as to whether it needs moderation or not.  Whats perceived as acceptable by one of the team may be wholly unacceptable to someone else, hence one may allow a posting to stay whilst another will delete or moderate it.  That said, extremes of toleration are few and far between.

Hopefully the admin team have a reasonably level standard of the acceptable and, as TB says, none of us want to have to re-tread the path that was on here some weeks ago when OOF was not a pretty place to be and the workload on the admin team to try and get it back onto track was horrendous.

The forum I helped to maintain had maybe easy 20+ moderators at any one time, ages ranging from mid teens to 40 somethings like me and with a mix of nationalities so I fully understand the difficulties involved and the differences in what one feels acceptable and what another doesn't.

Still, it's you guys that run the place so obviously you do so as you see fit but deleting entire threads is a little draconian especially as it may not have become the monster you feared it would. You should either let people make up their own minds or set a standard so we all know what we can and cannot post about. Now no-one knows because the thread vanished.

Religion is always a touchy subject, that's what makes debating it so interesting, when allowed. And from what I saw of the thread before it vanished, nothing appeared unacceptable :-?

As difficult as it is it would be better from a users point of view to know what is and isn't acceptable as a rule instead of just what is and isn't depending on who is moderating. That is easier done in a thread that can be seen and perhaps deleting individual posts rather than entire threads.

[TheBoy]

I'll try to clarify a couple of points that have been raised with regard to (perceived?) inconsistencies.

This is my view on moderation (OOF specifically - each other forum I moderate has a different set of needs).  It may or may not match that of other members of the Admin Team.


You will note, we don't have rules, we have guidelines. This should be clear enough to know the kind of behaviour expected of members (and mods  ), rather than an unmanagable 'rulebook'.  It also allows us (mods) some degree of flexibility.

Generally, we try to allow as much 'freedom' as possible, within the confines of the rules.  Sometimes, as I previously hinted at a few posts ago, we have a heightened sense of (lets call it nastiness/intolerance).  We have to take the current level of nastiness into account.

When the nastiness level is low, we can allow a little more freedom.  If the level rises, because generally people are at each others throats, we have to be a bit more strict.


The Burn a Religious Book thread happened in a time when things we good.  It was still a borderline subject (based on previous experience, and our global audience), hence the warning in that thread.  A couple of days ago, there was a fairly high profile spat on the site, and the usual long, drawn out postmortem - which is never constructive in these cases - unsurprisingly caused the 'nastiness level' to start to creep up.  Thus controversial threads in the last couple of days have had less slack.

Also, as Hotel21 suggested, although all the members of the Admin Team have similar views on what is acceptable here, we are all individuals.  If its a borderline subject, Hotel21, for example, may think its just on the acceptable side of the line, and I may think its just on the unacceptable side.  Each of us may also be taking into account other factors that the other may not be entirely familiar with.



As to whole threads getting nuked, we have a limited Admin Team, and remember we can see a little more than non privileged users with regard to what users are doing, sometimes it is easier to simply remove the entire thread than it is to chase the constant posts on it.  Its not unheard of for an entire section to get shut down to give our Mods some breathing space to tidy the section up. Rare, but happenes.

Also, be aware, many of the Mods are very busy people, and squeeze in what mod time they can, which often means trying to do it on mobile phones. Editing posts on phones isn't easy, and can be time consuming. Removing threads is quick and easy.  This sentence is my own view, and likely doesn't match what most of the other members of the Admin Team think 

[Entwood]

Well said TB .. upfront and honest as usual 

Donning the "tin hat" for a second ... OOF started off as a car help forum with a small "general chat" ... it now seems to be more of a "chat room" to some members than a car forum ...

Perhaps this is why the antagonism arises ... some of the "Spirit of OOF" has been lost somewhere

[hotel21]

Also, as Hotel21 suggested, although all the members of the Admin Team have similar views on what is acceptable here, we are all individuals.  If its a borderline subject, Hotel21, for example, may think its just on the acceptable side of the line, and I may think its just on the unacceptable side.  Each of us may also be taking into account other factors that the other may not be entirely familiar with.

Further to the above, I would suggest that by such an approach, OOF evolves into a better place overall as its the tighter standard from all mods thats then being applied, rather than the looser one, if you follow?

I accept that culling a post or the whole thread may seem draconian but, as TB says, myself and others peruse the forum frequently during the day from mobiles and splitting/splicing posts or moving them etc is a right royal pain in the harris.  Its a cop out, I know, but straightforward to 'hide' a thread pending edit or reinstatement later once home....

[Richie London]

i cant be dealing with threads where members dont agree with other peoples opinions and get nasty,even though i can be an asshole sometimes myself, have enough of it outside in the real world. i come on here for advice and have a laugh to unwind from the stress from the daytime, i hate to fall out with people, especially on such a great site as this. and theres not 1 person i can say i dislike on here at all. i wont even bother reading them if i think its going into a row. i abide by the rules and accept them as i did when i first joined this site 

[feeutfo]

Seems to me the post-mortems take more admin time than the original conflict of opinion, it's done, legs slapped, move on. IMO.

[Mr Skrunts]

Some interesting points there Rufus.  But I am with the Admin team here.  I have seen a lot of threads start , develope and completely errumpt, simply because of one or 2 members (and with respect to all involved - they are generally the newer members) trying to get thier points accross in any way they can with out being open minded or agree to disagree.

If you follow most threads carefully you will see there is a balance and self moderate, and if the debate is reasonable the Admin just monitor it but are ready to pounce, delete or even NUKE the thread if they see fit.  I have even knon TheBoy to pull a thread, let everyone
.0 chill and then enable it, which in all honesty could well work in the future.

The 2 types of thread that allways seem to be the problem causers are the religeous and the racial ones.  A lot of us have a varied sence of humour and see past the problem and see it in the light hearted way it was meant. But if it hits a nerve for any reason with a single member then it becomes out of order and therefore best avoided, time and experiance on the forum help understand that.  But adding to that in some cases it's open to discussion.

Admin have a crucial job of striking a balance that could sway either way, plus, and one that a lot forget, keeping the site LEGAL.  We have known situations here where it has got out of hand it was so bad the site nearly got  the plug pulled because of all the agro that was happening in the threads.

So the point I started with of backing the Admin/Mod team is that what they have learnt over the last 4+ years does work and the reason that the OOF community grows on a weekly basis, no every thing will not please eveyone, but that's life, and judgeing by the ammount of people here every week they agree. 

You make a lot of the points I made earlier to Rufus Zulu Skruntie.  However you, nor did I, really answer his main question

Why was the thread on Religion so quickly 'pulled' after just the initial posting and your answer (which would have been followed by mine) when the one on "International Burn-a-Koran Day!" was not and ran for pages.  If you look at the opening gambit of the latter it was already full of contention, being certainly judged by me, Proz, and obviously The Boy who posted a warning, as being a very dangerous area for OOF debate, so why was that not pulled as well?

That is what Rufus is fairly asking, which I think is a fair point.

The Admins of course have the final say, but should we not have a set Standard; no religious threads?? :-/ :-/

Simple in my case Lizzie, I cant comment on what I did.nr read, and neither have I read the koran thread, allthough I do have my views and reason's but I certainly would'nt debate religious matters on here.

As above I wont debate religeous, plus polital or racial matters and posibly a few others.

Why? - read the bottom of every post I make.

Ask yourself :  " WHY do I believe what I believe?"

Remember that my opinions expressed here are not representative of the opinions of other members on the OOF Forum.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Some interesting points there Rufus.  But I am with the Admin team here.  I have seen a lot of threads start , develope and completely errumpt, simply because of one or 2 members (and with respect to all involved - they are generally the newer members) trying to get thier points accross in any way they can with out being open minded or agree to disagree.

If you follow most threads carefully you will see there is a balance and self moderate, and if the debate is reasonable the Admin just monitor it but are ready to pounce, delete or even NUKE the thread if they see fit.  I have even knon TheBoy to pull a thread, let everyone
.0 chill and then enable it, which in all honesty could well work in the future.

The 2 types of thread that allways seem to be the problem causers are the religeous and the racial ones.  A lot of us have a varied sence of humour and see past the problem and see it in the light hearted way it was meant. But if it hits a nerve for any reason with a single member then it becomes out of order and therefore best avoided, time and experiance on the forum help understand that.  But adding to that in some cases it's open to discussion.

Admin have a crucial job of striking a balance that could sway either way, plus, and one that a lot forget, keeping the site LEGAL.  We have known situations here where it has got out of hand it was so bad the site nearly got  the plug pulled because of all the agro that was happening in the threads.

So the point I started with of backing the Admin/Mod team is that what they have learnt over the last 4+ years does work and the reason that the OOF community grows on a weekly basis, no every thing will not please eveyone, but that's life, and judgeing by the ammount of people here every week they agree. 

You make a lot of the points I made earlier to Rufus Zulu Skruntie.  However you, nor did I, really answer his main question

Why was the thread on Religion so quickly 'pulled' after just the initial posting and your answer (which would have been followed by mine) when the one on "International Burn-a-Koran Day!" was not and ran for pages.  If you look at the opening gambit of the latter it was already full of contention, being certainly judged by me, Proz, and obviously The Boy who posted a warning, as being a very dangerous area for OOF debate, so why was that not pulled as well?

That is what Rufus is fairly asking, which I think is a fair point.

The Admins of course have the final say, but should we not have a set Standard; no religious threads?? :-/ :-/

Simple in my case Lizzie, I cant comment on what I did.nr read, and neither have I read the koran thread, allthough I do have my views and reason's but I certainly would'nt debate religious matters on here.

As above I wont debate religeous, plus polital or racial matters and posibly a few others.

Why? - read the bottom of every post I make.

Ask yourself :  " WHY do I believe what I believe?"

Remember that my opinions expressed here are not representative of the opinions of other members on the OOF Forum.

That's right Skruntie, and you are wise not to.  My question was though (now clearly well answered by Ht21 and TB) why was one thread pulled when the other one was allowed to continue.

Going on from what you correctly state Skruntie, should the forum have a policy of no discussion on Religion or Race to avoid the heartache and work they give the Admins?  Do all members need the heartache also that can lead to high blood pressue?

After all the OOF IS a car forum, no more, no less!

 

[Darth Loo-knee]

Some interesting points there Rufus.  But I am with the Admin team here.  I have seen a lot of threads start , develope and completely errumpt, simply because of one or 2 members (and with respect to all involved - they are generally the newer members) trying to get thier points accross in any way they can with out being open minded or agree to disagree.

If you follow most threads carefully you will see there is a balance and self moderate, and if the debate is reasonable the Admin just monitor it but are ready to pounce, delete or even NUKE the thread if they see fit.  I have even knon TheBoy to pull a thread, let everyone
.0 chill and then enable it, which in all honesty could well work in the future.

The 2 types of thread that allways seem to be the problem causers are the religeous and the racial ones.  A lot of us have a varied sence of humour and see past the problem and see it in the light hearted way it was meant. But if it hits a nerve for any reason with a single member then it becomes out of order and therefore best avoided, time and experiance on the forum help understand that.  But adding to that in some cases it's open to discussion.

Admin have a crucial job of striking a balance that could sway either way, plus, and one that a lot forget, keeping the site LEGAL.  We have known situations here where it has got out of hand it was so bad the site nearly got  the plug pulled because of all the agro that was happening in the threads.

So the point I started with of backing the Admin/Mod team is that what they have learnt over the last 4+ years does work and the reason that the OOF community grows on a weekly basis, no every thing will not please eveyone, but that's life, and judgeing by the ammount of people here every week they agree. 

You make a lot of the points I made earlier to Rufus Zulu Skruntie.  However you, nor did I, really answer his main question

Why was the thread on Religion so quickly 'pulled' after just the initial posting and your answer (which would have been followed by mine) when the one on "International Burn-a-Koran Day!" was not and ran for pages.  If you look at the opening gambit of the latter it was already full of contention, being certainly judged by me, Proz, and obviously The Boy who posted a warning, as being a very dangerous area for OOF debate, so why was that not pulled as well?

That is what Rufus is fairly asking, which I think is a fair point.

The Admins of course have the final say, but should we not have a set Standard; no religious threads?? :-/ :-/

Simple in my case Lizzie, I cant comment on what I did.nr read, and neither have I read the koran thread, allthough I do have my views and reason's but I certainly would'nt debate religious matters on here.

As above I wont debate religeous, plus polital or racial matters and posibly a few others.

Why? - read the bottom of every post I make.

Ask yourself :  " WHY do I believe what I believe?"

Remember that my opinions expressed here are not representative of the opinions of other members on the OOF Forum.

That's right Skruntie, and you are wise not to.  My question was though (now clearly well answered by Ht21 and TB) why was one thread pulled when the other one was allowed to continue.

Going on from what you correctly state Skruntie, should the forum have a policy of no discussion on Religion or Race to avoid the heartache and work they give the Admins?  Do all members need the heartache also that can lead to high blood pressue?

After all the OOF IS a car forum, no more, no less!

 

As long as I have been on The Forum its always being a "Think about what your putting place."
I swear as much if not more than most, anyone that has met me will know that.. I do not do it on here though. I love Women and the tongue in cheek banter with them but would not insult them.

I have deleted whole threads Lizzie, as I have had several complaints about them. Being fair I don't have the time to read through the insults be it sexist, racist etc... But should we need to do that??? People keep saying we are adults on here so why is there a need to keep deleting posts/threads?? The idea of the Guidelines not Rules has created a more relaxed place to be most of the time.

Anyway this has all been said before, and for any of us to keep going on and on about the same thing is tedious.

 

[Mysteryman]

Some interesting points there Rufus.  But I am with the Admin team here.  I have seen a lot of threads start , develope and completely errumpt, simply because of one or 2 members (and with respect to all involved - they are generally the newer members) trying to get thier points accross in any way they can with out being open minded or agree to disagree.

If you follow most threads carefully you will see there is a balance and self moderate, and if the debate is reasonable the Admin just monitor it but are ready to pounce, delete or even NUKE the thread if they see fit.  I have even knon TheBoy to pull a thread, let everyone
.0 chill and then enable it, which in all honesty could well work in the future.

The 2 types of thread that allways seem to be the problem causers are the religeous and the racial ones.  A lot of us have a varied sence of humour and see past the problem and see it in the light hearted way it was meant. But if it hits a nerve for any reason with a single member then it becomes out of order and therefore best avoided, time and experiance on the forum help understand that.  But adding to that in some cases it's open to discussion.

Admin have a crucial job of striking a balance that could sway either way, plus, and one that a lot forget, keeping the site LEGAL.  We have known situations here where it has got out of hand it was so bad the site nearly got  the plug pulled because of all the agro that was happening in the threads.

So the point I started with of backing the Admin/Mod team is that what they have learnt over the last 4+ years does work and the reason that the OOF community grows on a weekly basis, no every thing will not please eveyone, but that's life, and judgeing by the ammount of people here every week they agree. 

You make a lot of the points I made earlier to Rufus Zulu Skruntie.  However you, nor did I, really answer his main question

Why was the thread on Religion so quickly 'pulled' after just the initial posting and your answer (which would have been followed by mine) when the one on "International Burn-a-Koran Day!" was not and ran for pages.  If you look at the opening gambit of the latter it was already full of contention, being certainly judged by me, Proz, and obviously The Boy who posted a warning, as being a very dangerous area for OOF debate, so why was that not pulled as well?

That is what Rufus is fairly asking, which I think is a fair point.

The Admins of course have the final say, but should we not have a set Standard; no religious threads?? :-/ :-/

Simple in my case Lizzie, I cant comment on what I did.nr read, and neither have I read the koran thread, allthough I do have my views and reason's but I certainly would'nt debate religious matters on here.

As above I wont debate religeous, plus polital or racial matters and posibly a few others.

Why? - read the bottom of every post I make.

Ask yourself :  " WHY do I believe what I believe?"

Remember that my opinions expressed here are not representative of the opinions of other members on the OOF Forum.

That's right Skruntie, and you are wise not to.  My question was though (now clearly well answered by Ht21 and TB) why was one thread pulled when the other one was allowed to continue.

Going on from what you correctly state Skruntie, should the forum have a policy of no discussion on Religion or Race to avoid the heartache and work they give the Admins?  Do all members need the heartache also that can lead to high blood pressue?

After all the OOF IS a car forum, no more, no less!

 

As long as I have been on The Forum its always being a "Think about what your putting place."
I swear as much if not more than most, anyone that has met me will know that.. I do not do it on here though. I love Women and the tongue in cheek banter with them but would not insult them.

I have deleted whole threads Lizzie, as I have had several complaints about them. Being fair I don't have the time to read through the insults be it sexist, racist etc... But should we need to do that??? People keep saying we are adults on here so why is there a need to keep deleting posts/threads?? The idea of the Guidelines not Rules has created a more relaxed place to be most of the time.

Anyway this has all been said before, and for any of us to keep going on and on about the same thing is tedious.

 
 

Well shut up then, peabrain.