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[Mysteryman]

I've just finished watching the programme. It seems pointless weighing the pros and cons on here because we have no chance of ever understanding any of it. Bankers and politicians dont understand it, it was designed that way.

[Banjax]

I've just finished watching the programme. It seems pointless weighing the pros and cons on here because we have no chance of ever understanding any of it. Bankers and politicians dont understand it, it was designed that way.

Quantum physics is difficult to understand and anyone who says otherwise doesnt know enough. Banking tho? It may be complex, but I think all this "oh, its much too difficult for any layman to understand - only the self-styled masters of the universe know how it operates" is a smokescreen, much like the Great and Terrible Oz behind the curtain its an insignificant little snake oil salesman desperately hoping everyone believes hes a god and goes away 

The stock market where they all gamble our money was set up to raise capital for businesses and provide liquidity for investors, it was a useful and much needed tool.

Nowadays its all gambling with derivitives, options, traded options, etc you can bet on any move in the market and hence its become so volatile that its now pretty much pure speculation. It all works fine until it doesn't - its a house of cards, its a huge multi-trillion pound confidence trick. Lose that confidence and you get owned like Northern Rock and RBS or disappear like Lehman Bros

[albitz]

Get down to London then BJ, spend a couple of relaxing years making yourself an easy few million........you really dont have a clue mate, honestly

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Get down to London then BJ, spend a couple of relaxing years making yourself an easy few million........you really dont have a clue mate, honestly

BJ  and I would soon show these city sharks how to run a bank for the good of the people ....rather than for their own personal profit..... ....it's not rocket science....

[albitz]

Which just demonstrates how utterly clueless, and blinded by prejuduce you are on the whole subject.
But prove me wrong,please, get down there and do it. Talk is cheap after all.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Which just demonstrates how utterly clueless, and blinded by prejuduce you are on the whole subject.
But prove me wrong,please, get down there and do it. Talk is cheap after all.

If you wish to drop to your knees and worship the city banker like he is the new Messiah.....then that is entirely your prerogative Albs....In my view even the best  of them possess only average talent. Plenty more are simply inept. There are plenty who could take their place and do a far better job for far less money than these so called whizz-kids demand. These adenoidal upstarts do not have my respect.....I'll save that for people far more deserving......

[cem_devecioglu]

I've just finished watching the programme. It seems pointless weighing the pros and cons on here because we have no chance of ever understanding any of it. Bankers and politicians dont understand it, it was designed that way.

Quantum physics is difficult to understand and anyone who says otherwise doesnt know enough. Banking tho? It may be complex, but I think all this "oh, its much too difficult for any layman to understand - only the self-styled masters of the universe know how it operates" is a smokescreen, much like the Great and Terrible Oz behind the curtain its an insignificant little snake oil salesman desperately hoping everyone believes hes a god and goes away 

The stock market where they all gamble our money was set up to raise capital for businesses and provide liquidity for investors, it was a useful and much needed tool.

Nowadays its all gambling with derivitives, options, traded options, etc you can bet on any move in the market and hence its become so volatile that its now pretty much pure speculation. It all works fine until it doesn't - its a house of cards, its a huge multi-trillion pound confidence trick. Lose that confidence and you get owned like Northern Rock and RBS or disappear like Lehman Bros

ok.. STMO actually its not that hard.. assume all those banking system,papers,rules,stock markets as a highway which ends in the pockets of mega rich masters like Rockefeller, Rothschild, Ellison etc..

problem with the capitalist system is its designed so that whatever you spend and from whatever the path money follows it sooner or later reaches its final destination and ends in the accounts of few.. and its obvious that those few cant spend that much..  so the system goes into an irreversible state and freezes , which occurs periodically..

and of course apart from all monetary theories, the provided solution to that

the whole world production is calculated to be some 62 trillion US$  where as the complete world economic system claims to have  620 trillion US$ (most of it on papers) .. obviously thats another kind of problem which says that world is sitting on baloons that will explode sooner or later..

unfortunately none of those intelligent economists have the necessary real solution to solve those problems in capitalist system rules.. unless they change the system 

[Mysteryman]

Just read this. I was mistaken, it's a piece'o'piss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_(finance)

[albitz]

Which just demonstrates how utterly clueless, and blinded by prejuduce you are on the whole subject.
But prove me wrong,please, get down there and do it. Talk is cheap after all.

If you wish to drop to your knees and worship the city banker like he is the new Messiah.....then that is entirely your prerogative Albs....In my view even the best  of them possess only average talent. Plenty more are simply inept. There are plenty who could take their place and do a far better job for far less money than these so called whizz-kids demand. These adenoidal upstarts do not have my respect.....I'll save that for people far more deserving......

you have demonstrated your ignorance and blind prejudice yet again. I try to deal in facts where possible. You deal in knee jerk reactionary rhetoric, typical off a lefty who will not let facts get in the way of what they want to believe to be true.

I dont worship anyone or anything, but I do think freely, and will happily swim against the tide if I believe it to be the right thing to do. You know that I know a little bit about the subject and you know why I know. I would like to be enlightened on what you actually know about the subject, and therefore base your wide sweeping statements on, rather than what you would like to think you know because the Grauniad said so.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Which just demonstrates how utterly clueless, and blinded by prejuduce you are on the whole subject.
But prove me wrong,please, get down there and do it. Talk is cheap after all.

If you wish to drop to your knees and worship the city banker like he is the new Messiah.....then that is entirely your prerogative Albs....In my view even the best  of them possess only average talent. Plenty more are simply inept. There are plenty who could take their place and do a far better job for far less money than these so called whizz-kids demand. These adenoidal upstarts do not have my respect.....I'll save that for people far more deserving......

you have demonstrated your ignorance and blind prejudice yet again. I try to deal in facts where possible. You deal in knee jerk reactionary rhetoric, typical off a lefty who will not let facts get in the way of what they want to believe to be true.

No one has ever called me a lefty before...... ....I'm a proud Thatcherite.......and I read( and believe) the Daily Mail too....honest

[cem_devecioglu]

I've just finished watching the programme. It seems pointless weighing the pros and cons on here because we have no chance of ever understanding any of it. Bankers and politicians dont understand it, it was designed that way.

Quantum physics is difficult to understand and anyone who says otherwise doesnt know enough. Banking tho? It may be complex, but I think all this "oh, its much too difficult for any layman to understand - only the self-styled masters of the universe know how it operates" is a smokescreen, much like the Great and Terrible Oz behind the curtain its an insignificant little snake oil salesman desperately hoping everyone believes hes a god and goes away 

The stock market where they all gamble our money was set up to raise capital for businesses and provide liquidity for investors, it was a useful and much needed tool.

Nowadays its all gambling with derivitives, options, traded options, etc you can bet on any move in the market and hence its become so volatile that its now pretty much pure speculation. It all works fine until it doesn't - its a house of cards, its a huge multi-trillion pound confidence trick. Lose that confidence and you get owned like Northern Rock and RBS or disappear like Lehman Bros

ok.. STMO actually its not that hard.. assume all those banking system,papers,rules,stock markets as a highway which ends in the pockets of mega rich masters like Rockefeller, Rothschild, Ellison etc..

problem with the capitalist system is its designed so that whatever you spend and from whatever the path money follows it sooner or later reaches its final destination and ends in the accounts of few.. and its obvious that those few cant spend that much..  so the system goes into an irreversible state and freezes , which occurs periodically..

and of course apart from all monetary theories, the provided solution to that

the whole world production is calculated to be some 62 trillion US$  where as the complete world economic system claims to have  620 trillion US$ (most of it on papers) .. obviously thats another kind of problem which says that world is sitting on baloons that will explode sooner or later..

unfortunately none of those intelligent economists have the necessary real solution to solve those problems in capitalist system rules.. unless they change the system 

the only real solution is that the production tools must belong to community or the masses otherwise you cant change the flow direction of money.. of course a state that arranges the monetary distribution equally can well balance the system.. which examples in the past and today are seen but violently tried to taken down by unequal forces  (with money accumulated from long centuries )

I'm sure one day those will change but probably most of  us cant see :-/ 

[albitz]

Course you do.I rest my case.

[Banjax]

I dont know why you're so pro-banker Albs, if as you say it was all big, bad, Gordon Browns fault then you're agreeing with me, Opti and birthday boy Cem because of GB's "light touch" he believed the bankers who promised they'd behave in the best interests of the city, the government and business - that was the mistake he made - he foolishly and naively believed they wouldn't act like the greedy, selfish spivs they are and always were. dont put a fillet steak in front of a dog and leave the room.....unless you dont want the steak back 

not all of them can be motivated by greed.......some are far too wealthy to care anymore 

[bigegg]

Banking should be tedious and safe, surely Albs.

If you're going to be brave - do it with your own money, i'd welcome the "risk-takers" foxtrotting off,

<snip>

I think the banks, certainly the high street ones, could do a little MORE risk-taking.
Asking for a 30 or 40% deposit on a mortgage for a building (whether commercial or residential) which is at a rock-bottom price already (and WILL go up in price - land is the only thing we can't get more of) is
IMO, stifling the recovery of the economy.
I'm renting  a warehouse for the same price I could BUY one five times the size - and that includes the business rates and all the other costs - IF I could get a mortgage.
I could expand my business, and take on 5 extra staff if I could get a new warehouse - I can afford a 100% mortgage, but can't afford the 40% deposit any of the banks want.
As it is, I'm just, barely, covering my costs in employing myself and my son.

[Banjax]

Banking should be tedious and safe, surely Albs.

If you're going to be brave - do it with your own money, i'd welcome the "risk-takers" foxtrotting off,

<snip>

I think the banks, certainly the high street ones, could do a little MORE risk-taking.
Asking for a 30 or 40% deposit on a mortgage for a building (whether commercial or residential) which is at a rock-bottom price already (and WILL go up in price - land is the only thing we can't get more of) is
IMO, stifling the recovery of the economy.
I'm renting  a warehouse for the same price I could BUY one five times the size - and that includes the business rates and all the other costs - IF I could get a mortgage.
I could expand my business, and take on 5 extra staff if I could get a new warehouse - I can afford a 100% mortgage, but can't afford the 40% deposit any of the banks want.
As it is, I'm just, barely, covering my costs in employing myself and my son.

they're only lending to companies with turnover of £10m and above - they wont admit it and they'll swear blind to anyone who asks that its not the case, but it is - they're not wise, brave or trusting enough to judge a business anymore, plus they got caught with their pants down 2 years ago and are still smarting  :-/