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Author Topic: yet more lessons learned  (Read 2175 times)

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Andy B

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yet more lessons learned
« on: 02 February 2011, 22:36:21 »
it seems that social services have even more lesson to learn ............  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-12340093
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PhilRich

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #1 on: 02 February 2011, 22:52:05 »
For Gods Sake! It is so depressing!! >:( :(
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Andy B

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #2 on: 02 February 2011, 22:54:05 »
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For Gods Sake! It is so depressing!! >:( :(

and preventable it seems ......... again!
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skinwiz

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #3 on: 02 February 2011, 22:59:20 »
this is going to sound like an excuse , which it isn't , there aren't any for this type of failure of the system , but , (always a but ) S.S just simply don't have the budget etc to stop these things from happening all the time , they are absolutely swamped by all the things they are supposed to be responsible for , i've seen just some of the things they are obliged to do under law for various sections of the community and even i ,with my negative attitude and my 'don't make excuses just get it done ' approach to most things regarding social care etc have to say that there is no way on this earth with the current resources available to them that they can be half as effective as they themselves would like to be .
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skinwiz

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #4 on: 02 February 2011, 23:04:17 »
i can't help wondering why family or friends didn't stop this either , or the police , wait , hang on , i know why the police didnt intervene so scrap that question  :-/
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Entwood

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #5 on: 02 February 2011, 23:04:55 »
Quote
this is going to sound like an excuse , which it isn't , there aren't any for this type of failure of the system , but , (always a but ) S.S just simply don't have the budget etc to stop these things from happening all the time , they are absolutely swamped by all the things they are supposed to be responsible for , i've seen just some of the things they are obliged to do under law for various sections of the community and even i ,with my negative attitude and my 'don't make excuses just get it done ' approach to most things regarding social care etc have to say that there is no way on this earth with the current resources available to them that they can be half as effective as they themselves would like to be .


Sorry .. but the only way your argument would stand would be if there had been no visits because of a lack of resources....

There were plenty of resources ..... because 17  yes [size=16]17[/size] visits were made by SS ... who then did nothing. Sorry , I'm wrong .. they did do something .. they believed a drunk..... probably because that was the "easy option" in their little tick boxes.
« Last Edit: 02 February 2011, 23:07:55 by entwood »
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Vamps

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #6 on: 02 February 2011, 23:05:50 »
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Quote
For Gods Sake! It is so depressing!! >:( :(

and preventable it seems ......... again!

It would seem so, going on what has been reported on the news today.... :(
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Andy B

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #7 on: 02 February 2011, 23:07:44 »
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....
 S.S just simply don't have the budget etc to stop these things from happening all the time .....

true, but there's some irony there in that SS (& education) consume the vast majority of your council tax.  :-/
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Andy B

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #8 on: 02 February 2011, 23:09:25 »
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..... , i know why the police didnt intervene so scrap that question  :-/

Did they assume that SS would take over?  :-/
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Vamps

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #9 on: 02 February 2011, 23:13:40 »
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..... , i know why the police didnt intervene so scrap that question  :-/

Did they assume that SS would take over?  :-/

The Police have the power to remove a child, Social Workers do not, without parental agreement or a Court Order....... :-X
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skinwiz

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #10 on: 02 February 2011, 23:22:31 »
no , in manchester the police leave something to be desired , if its too much trouble it won't get done , i kid you not , they can field an army of officers for a footy match but if you report a crime that looks too difficult to solve they wont even attempt it . sorry if that sounds negative but i genuinely have 2 letters somewhere from GMP  thanking me for informing them of seperate crimes , unbelievably they said they had exhuasted all lines of enquiry and if found out any more information to give them a call . i had a friend look into both cases and nothing had been done , not even visiting the scenes of either crime , which is a shame because had they bothered to follow it up there is a good chance they could have stopped a young girl being sexually assaulted , they caught the guy thankfully , but only after a member of the public  realised who he was and what he was upto and followed him till a pcso turned up .
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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #11 on: 02 February 2011, 23:26:23 »
Poor little mite.
I thought it was going to say she had been jailed for 27 YEARS, not months.  Still wouldn't of made it right though.  >:( >:(
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Vamps

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #12 on: 02 February 2011, 23:28:23 »
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Quote
this is going to sound like an excuse , which it isn't , there aren't any for this type of failure of the system , but , (always a but ) S.S just simply don't have the budget etc to stop these things from happening all the time , they are absolutely swamped by all the things they are supposed to be responsible for , i've seen just some of the things they are obliged to do under law for various sections of the community and even i ,with my negative attitude and my 'don't make excuses just get it done ' approach to most things regarding social care etc have to say that there is no way on this earth with the current resources available to them that they can be half as effective as they themselves would like to be .


Sorry .. but the only way your argument would stand would be if there had been no visits because of a lack of resources....

There were plenty of resources ..... because 17  yes [size=16]17[/size] visits were made by SS ... who then did nothing. Sorry , I'm wrong .. they did do something .. they believed a drunk..... probably because that was the "easy option" in their little tick boxes.

E, you work in the courts, please tell us all how long it takes the Local Authority to get a 'Care Order' on a child? an average case would do....  An Emergency Protection Order takes 3 days, but the removal of a child, without parental consent, can be instant if removed by the POLICE and NOT social workers who do not have the authority, and then it is the Social Workers who have to do all the paper work for the Court to get the Emergency Protection Order... :-X
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skinwiz

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #13 on: 02 February 2011, 23:36:38 »
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this is going to sound like an excuse , which it isn't , there aren't any for this type of failure of the system , but , (always a but ) S.S just simply don't have the budget etc to stop these things from happening all the time , they are absolutely swamped by all the things they are supposed to be responsible for , i've seen just some of the things they are obliged to do under law for various sections of the community and even i ,with my negative attitude and my 'don't make excuses just get it done ' approach to most things regarding social care etc have to say that there is no way on this earth with the current resources available to them that they can be half as effective as they themselves would like to be .


Sorry .. but the only way your argument would stand would be if there had been no visits because of a lack of resources....

There were plenty of resources ..... because 17  yes [size=16]17[/size] visits were made by SS ... who then did nothing. Sorry , I'm wrong .. they did do something .. they believed a drunk..... probably because that was the "easy option" in their little tick boxes.
i'm not disagreeing with you , they failed and that isn't acceptable at all , but i fear its the same syndrome that creeps into a lot of what the local authority should do , followed by what they have the funds to do and the difference is usually enourmous , i'm prepared to bet that there are more 'at risk' people in our society than they could possibly re-home , bearing in mind that its not just children , it is anyone and everyone that lives independantly within a local authority so your looking at old people , disabled people , their carers they all have certain rights under law , at the risk of being absolutely slated for the second time in 2 days , who do you leave out ? this particular argument is huge do you prioritise the old ? the young ? the disabled ? who gets the short straw ??? 
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skinwiz

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Re: yet more lessons learned
« Reply #14 on: 02 February 2011, 23:47:32 »
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Quote
Quote
this is going to sound like an excuse , which it isn't , there aren't any for this type of failure of the system , but , (always a but ) S.S just simply don't have the budget etc to stop these things from happening all the time , they are absolutely swamped by all the things they are supposed to be responsible for , i've seen just some of the things they are obliged to do under law for various sections of the community and even i ,with my negative attitude and my 'don't make excuses just get it done ' approach to most things regarding social care etc have to say that there is no way on this earth with the current resources available to them that they can be half as effective as they themselves would like to be .


Sorry .. but the only way your argument would stand would be if there had been no visits because of a lack of resources....

There were plenty of resources ..... because 17  yes [size=16]17[/size] visits were made by SS ... who then did nothing. Sorry , I'm wrong .. they did do something .. they believed a drunk..... probably because that was the "easy option" in their little tick boxes.

E, you work in the courts, please tell us all how long it takes the Local Authority to get a 'Care Order' on a child? an average case would do....  An Emergency Protection Order takes 3 days, but the removal of a child, without parental consent, can be instant if removed by the POLICE and NOT social workers who do not have the authority, and then it is the Social Workers who have to do all the paper work for the Court to get the Emergency Protection Order... :-X
i think you could be in for a surprise here vamps this is minefield territory when it comes to that sort of thing , or so i believe , i could be wrong , i often am but if memory serves then it takes quite a few agencies working together and choosing the right reasons etc . complicated , very complicated . and probably half the problem too , i think you really have to make a watertight legal argument before someone even thinks about signing the order , i could be confusing it with restriction of liberty issues and power of attorney etc as we were hit with lots of info in a very short time lol
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