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[PhilRich]

wont do any good Im afraid. The EU courts and Parliament have jurisdiction over Westminster. We do not have the right to defy this order from Strasbourg. We will have to comply eventually.
This country needs to decide - or more accurately, be given the right to decide - whether we want to be members of the EU club or not. If we do want to be in, then we should stop trying to change the rules when they dont suit us, its childish and demeans us in the eyes of the world at large. We need to accept that we do not any longer have a sovereign Parliament which makes the laws and applies them in this country, those days are long gone. We cant keep having our cake and eating it.
Personally, I detest the EU and would love nothing more than to see the U.K. withdraw from it ASAP.

P,S I thought (the excellent) David Davies put it rather nicely today. "If you go to prison for breaking the law, you should lose your right to participate in the process of making the law". Why didnt the Tories choose him as their leader ?

I bloody well haven't, not while i've still got breath in my body & a vote!

[Varche]

Varche - we did vote to join a club (the common market) but the club has changed into something else entirely over time, and we havent once been allowed to vote on any of the  changes.We have been lied to time and time again by politicians of all colours on this subject. They have taken us for mugs, and so far have gotten away with it. Btw I agreed with everything else you wrote. I think in the short to medium term apathy will reign, we are a very apathetic country these days. Most people dont seem to know or care what the issues are, but Im sure at some point change will come. It just isnt obvious where from yet.

Nicely put Bluey. I believe there is a lot of discontentment throughout the EU, and I believe that there is a good chance it will eventually implode.

Doesn't that just remind you of politics in general. For example the good citizens of the UK recently "voted". What did they end up with? A coalition who have lied and broken so many promises and it is still early days. For the record , I believe that if Labour had got back in then they too would have lied and broken their promises. It is just the rotten state politics is in.

For the record few EU countries seem to have a big majority governent. Spain is saddled with Mr Bean, France has Sarky, Italy that Berly.They are all busy pushing through unpopular policies.

As for trade. I don't honestly know whether the Uk benefits or not from being in the EU. We never get told the real figures. I do know that apart from whisky which is a real worldwide success story you are hard pushed to see Uk produce in a Fench or Spanish supermarket. I wonder why? I spoke to a French stonemason and he was gobsmacked when I told him Britain produces fabulous cheese. His comment "if they do, why isn't it for sale in our supermarkets then?"

Bluey - Commonwealth? Too late mate. I am still amazed we burnt those bridges in favour of stronger links with EU countries especially after they fought for us as recently as the WW2 . 
The Chinese have got it right now building their commonwealth right across the globe.

[albitz]

Very well put Varche.

[tigers_gonads]

Varche - we did vote to join a club (the common market) but the club has changed into something else entirely over time, and we havent once been allowed to vote on any of the  changes.We have been lied to time and time again by politicians of all colours on this subject. They have taken us for mugs, and so far have gotten away with it. Btw I agreed with everything else you wrote. I think in the short to medium term apathy will reign, we are a very apathetic country these days. Most people dont seem to know or care what the issues are, but Im sure at some point change will come. It just isnt obvious where from yet.

Nicely put Bluey. I believe there is a lot of discontentment throughout the EU, and I believe that there is a good chance it will eventually implode.

Doesn't that just remind you of politics in general. For example the good citizens of the UK recently "voted". What did they end up with? A coalition who have lied and broken so many promises and it is still early days. For the record , I believe that if Labour had got back in then they too would have lied and broken their promises. It is just the rotten state politics is in.

For the record few EU countries seem to have a big majority governent. Spain is saddled with Mr Bean, France has Sarky, Italy that Berly.They are all busy pushing through unpopular policies.

As for trade. I don't honestly know whether the Uk benefits or not from being in the EU. We never get told the real figures. I do know that apart from whisky which is a real worldwide success story you are hard pushed to see Uk produce in a Fench or Spanish supermarket. I wonder why? I spoke to a French stonemason and he was gobsmacked when I told him Britain produces fabulous cheese. His comment "if they do, why isn't it for sale in our supermarkets then?"

Bluey - Commonwealth? Too late mate. I am still amazed we burnt those bridges in favour of stronger links with EU countries especially after they fought for us as recently as the WW2 . 
The Chinese have got it right now building their commonwealth right across the globe.[/quote]


i'll give it 20 years and the chinese will be running this planet.

[albitz]

wont do any good Im afraid. The EU courts and Parliament have jurisdiction over Westminster. We do not have the right to defy this order from Strasbourg. We will have to comply eventually.
This country needs to decide - or more accurately, be given the right to decide - whether we want to be members of the EU club or not. If we do want to be in, then we should stop trying to change the rules when they dont suit us, its childish and demeans us in the eyes of the world at large. We need to accept that we do not any longer have a sovereign Parliament which makes the laws and applies them in this country, those days are long gone. We cant keep having our cake and eating it.
Personally, I detest the EU and would love nothing more than to see the U.K. withdraw from it ASAP.

P,S I thought (the excellent) David Davies put it rather nicely today. "If you go to prison for breaking the law, you should lose your right to participate in the process of making the law". Why didnt the Tories choose him as their leader ?

I bloody well haven't, not while i've still got breath in my body & a vote!

In which case Phil, the only party worth casting your vote for is UKIP.

[Banjax]

i'm a bit uneasy with us all being so happy that we'll freely disregard human rights, and what really irks is that a lot of people are so worried about prisoners getting a vote (which, as albs says is inevitable) yet they dont vote themselves...so now its important, but not that important that more than 1 in 3 of us cant get off our arse and vote when theres an election?

pointless posturing from DC trying to look tough to the Mail and Express readers in my opinion

[Terbs]

i'm a bit uneasy with us all being so happy that we'll freely disregard human rights, and what really irks is that a lot of people are so worried about prisoners getting a vote (which, as albs says is inevitable) yet they dont vote themselves...so now its important, but not that important that more than 1 in 3 of us cant get off our arse and vote when theres an election?pointless posturing from DC trying to look tough to the Mail and Express readers in my opinion

I totally agree.....
It makes me mad when opinion polls show over 80% of the public are against Europe, yet don't do anything about it !!!!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Varche - we did vote to join a club (the common market) but the club has changed into something else entirely over time, and we havent once been allowed to vote on any of the  changes.We have been lied to time and time again by politicians of all colours on this subject. They have taken us for mugs, and so far have gotten away with it. Btw I agreed with everything else you wrote. I think in the short to medium term apathy will reign, we are a very apathetic country these days. Most people dont seem to know or care what the issues are, but Im sure at some point change will come. It just isnt obvious where from yet.

Nicely put Bluey. I believe there is a lot of discontentment throughout the EU, and I believe that there is a good chance it will eventually implode.

Doesn't that just remind you of politics in general. For example the good citizens of the UK recently "voted". What did they end up with? A coalition who have lied and broken so many promises and it is still early days. For the record , I believe that if Labour had got back in then they too would have lied and broken their promises. It is just the rotten state politics is in.

For the record few EU countries seem to have a big majority governent. Spain is saddled with Mr Bean, France has Sarky, Italy that Berly.They are all busy pushing through unpopular policies.

As for trade. I don't honestly know whether the Uk benefits or not from being in the EU. We never get told the real figures. I do know that apart from whisky which is a real worldwide success story you are hard pushed to see Uk produce in a Fench or Spanish supermarket. I wonder why? I spoke to a French stonemason and he was gobsmacked when I told him Britain produces fabulous cheese. His comment "if they do, why isn't it for sale in our supermarkets then?"

Bluey - Commonwealth? Too late mate. I am still amazed we burnt those bridges in favour of stronger links with EU countries especially after they fought for us as recently as the WW2 . 
The Chinese have got it right now building their commonwealth right across the globe.

You have hit the problem right on the head Varche!

I make no secret of the fact that although I voted "NO" in 1975 referendum on staying in the EEC, I have since been a supporter of the EU in terms of a trading and social partner.  However I, like everyone else, has never voted for what even the ills of the original EEC has become

I want a strong Europe, working together for peace and security, but what I do not want is a Federal Europe dictating to me in Britain using unelected politicians along with defrauding us daily!!!

Either Europe sorts itself out in Brussels or we pull out!  I am hoping that our Prime Minister, David Cameron, who's party I have supported since the 1970s, is tough enough to protect all our interests and has the back bone to pull us out as and when necessary!

[Kevin Wood]

i'm a bit uneasy with us all being so happy that we'll freely disregard human rights, and what really irks is that a lot of people are so worried about prisoners getting a vote (which, as albs says is inevitable) yet they dont vote themselves...so now its important, but not that important that more than 1 in 3 of us cant get off our arse and vote when theres an election?

pointless posturing from DC trying to look tough to the Mail and Express readers in my opinion

It's not like they are going to be waterboarded or anything..

Prisons exist for the removal of human rights, as punishment.

The logical conclusion to your argument is that we set the prisoners free just in case their right not to be locked up is violated.

Our government / judicial system should be in a position to specify exactly what rights prisoners on our soil are entitled to, IMHO. That's the real issue.

Kevin

[Entwood]

i'm a bit uneasy with us all being so happy that we'll freely disregard human rights, and what really irks is that a lot of people are so worried about prisoners getting a vote (which, as albs says is inevitable) yet they dont vote themselves...so now its important, but not that important that more than 1 in 3 of us cant get off our arse and vote when theres an election?

pointless posturing from DC trying to look tough to the Mail and Express readers in my opinion

So .. what of the "human rights" of the direct victims of crime, those that are injured directly, or frightened for the rest of their lives?? what of the "human rights" of those that have to "clean up" after crime .. and I include medical, police, social workers, families, counsellors ... and probably more .. all who, it appears .. have to do away with their "right" to a decent life just so the vociferous criminal huggers and do-gooders have something to posture about.

It is the left wing luvvies who posture IMHO

[Varche]

Interestingly there are either 7 or 13  other EU countries that also have no vote for prisoners. So Britain isn't the only EU country. Spain does allow the vote apparently!

Britain should withdraw from the European Court of Rights for Criminals and Terrorists.

Prisoners at Alcatraz had three basic rights: food, clothing and shelter. Anything else was considered a priviledge, and had to be earned.

[Banjax]

i'm a bit uneasy with us all being so happy that we'll freely disregard human rights, and what really irks is that a lot of people are so worried about prisoners getting a vote (which, as albs says is inevitable) yet they dont vote themselves...so now its important, but not that important that more than 1 in 3 of us cant get off our arse and vote when theres an election?

pointless posturing from DC trying to look tough to the Mail and Express readers in my opinion

It's not like they are going to be waterboarded or anything..

Prisons exist for the removal of human rights, as punishment.

The logical conclusion to your argument is that we set the prisoners free just in case their right not to be locked up is violated.

Our government / judicial system should be in a position to specify exactly what rights prisoners on our soil are entitled to, IMHO. That's the real issue.

Kevin

prison exists surely to rehabilitate offenders not take away human rights and integrate them back into society not distance them from it, i don't see how removing their right to vote helps with that - you're just creating more people caring less and less about their society - and the EU will simply impose fines - and it'll cost us milions as every prisoner who wants to vote takes their case to Brussels at taxpayers expense 

[Entwood]

i'm a bit uneasy with us all being so happy that we'll freely disregard human rights, and what really irks is that a lot of people are so worried about prisoners getting a vote (which, as albs says is inevitable) yet they dont vote themselves...so now its important, but not that important that more than 1 in 3 of us cant get off our arse and vote when theres an election?

pointless posturing from DC trying to look tough to the Mail and Express readers in my opinion

It's not like they are going to be waterboarded or anything..

Prisons exist for the removal of human rights, as punishment.

The logical conclusion to your argument is that we set the prisoners free just in case their right not to be locked up is violated.

Our government / judicial system should be in a position to specify exactly what rights prisoners on our soil are entitled to, IMHO. That's the real issue.

Kevin

prison exists surely to rehabilitate offenders not take away human rights and integrate them back into society not distance them from it, i don't see how removing their right to vote helps with that - you're just creating more people caring less and less about their society - and the EU will simply impose fines - and it'll cost us milions as every prisoner who wants to vote takes their case to Brussels at taxpayers expense 

Disagree profoundly.

Prison exists to PUNISH and DETER.

Rehabilitation is the carrot dangled by left wing luvvies trying to appease.

You cannot "rehabilitate" a terrorist, a mass murderer or a paedophile. .. and numerous other "types" of criminal. The sooner we stop trying and turn prisons back into places of PUNISHMENT rather than holiday camps.. the more effective they will become.

If prison is so "rehabilitive" .. just how come the drug lords continue to run their emopires from within prison

Good "rehabilitation" that !!! NOT

[Banjax]

i'm a bit uneasy with us all being so happy that we'll freely disregard human rights, and what really irks is that a lot of people are so worried about prisoners getting a vote (which, as albs says is inevitable) yet they dont vote themselves...so now its important, but not that important that more than 1 in 3 of us cant get off our arse and vote when theres an election?

pointless posturing from DC trying to look tough to the Mail and Express readers in my opinion

It's not like they are going to be waterboarded or anything..

Prisons exist for the removal of human rights, as punishment.

The logical conclusion to your argument is that we set the prisoners free just in case their right not to be locked up is violated.

Our government / judicial system should be in a position to specify exactly what rights prisoners on our soil are entitled to, IMHO. That's the real issue.

Kevin

prison exists surely to rehabilitate offenders not take away human rights and integrate them back into society not distance them from it, i don't see how removing their right to vote helps with that - you're just creating more people caring less and less about their society - and the EU will simply impose fines - and it'll cost us milions as every prisoner who wants to vote takes their case to Brussels at taxpayers expense 

Disagree profoundly.

Prison exists to PUNISH and DETER.

Rehabilitation is the carrot dangled by left wing luvvies trying to appease.

You cannot "rehabilitate" a terrorist, a mass murderer or a paedophile. .. and numerous other "types" of criminal. The sooner we stop trying and turn prisons back into places of PUNISHMENT rather than holiday camps.. the more effective they will become.

If prison is so "rehabilitive" .. just how come the drug lords continue to run their emopires from within prison

Good "rehabilitation" that !!! NOT

so everyone in prison needs to be treated as if they were the worst of society regardless of being a shoplifter or a mass murderer?  :-?

obviously some people are beyond help but you cant treat every inmate like they're the scum of the earth....actually, try it for 10 years and see if re-offending stats go up or down 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

i'm a bit uneasy with us all being so happy that we'll freely disregard human rights, and what really irks is that a lot of people are so worried about prisoners getting a vote (which, as albs says is inevitable) yet they dont vote themselves...so now its important, but not that important that more than 1 in 3 of us cant get off our arse and vote when theres an election?

pointless posturing from DC trying to look tough to the Mail and Express readers in my opinion

It's not like they are going to be waterboarded or anything..

Prisons exist for the removal of human rights, as punishment.

The logical conclusion to your argument is that we set the prisoners free just in case their right not to be locked up is violated.

Our government / judicial system should be in a position to specify exactly what rights prisoners on our soil are entitled to, IMHO. That's the real issue.

Kevin

prison exists surely to rehabilitate offenders not take away human rights and integrate them back into society not distance them from it, i don't see how removing their right to vote helps with that - you're just creating more people caring less and less about their society - and the EU will simply impose fines - and it'll cost us milions as every prisoner who wants to vote takes their case to Brussels at taxpayers expense 

Disagree profoundly.

Prison exists to PUNISH and DETER.

Rehabilitation is the carrot dangled by left wing luvvies trying to appease.

You cannot "rehabilitate" a terrorist, a mass murderer or a paedophile. .. and numerous other "types" of criminal. The sooner we stop trying and turn prisons back into places of PUNISHMENT rather than holiday camps.. the more effective they will become.

If prison is so "rehabilitive" .. just how come the drug lords continue to run their emopires from within prison

Good "rehabilitation" that !!! NOT

so everyone in prison needs to be treated as if they were the worst of society regardless of being a shoplifter or a mass murderer?  :-?

obviously some people are beyond help but you cant treat every inmate like they're the scum of the earth....actually, try it for 10 years and see if re-offending stats go up or down 

I can see where you are coming from BJ, but recently on tv I heard an ex-con, who is now a probation officer, say that he had never heard someone inside worrying about a right to vote.  In fact he stated he, and no-one else, cared a sod about voting.  They didn't expect to anyway!

So I do believe this is a nonsense legal argument by Brussels with a 'bee in their bonnet' about a problem that doesn't exist.  Well it didn't until those in Brussels raised the issue, and now criminals are coming out of the woodwork to claim compensation for not having the right to vote whilst inside!!   Madeness!!