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[Dishevelled Den]

Z you make it sound like one day the EU leader stood on top of the Brussels building and out of the blue told all the Eu countries you will do renewables!

What actually happened was all the Eu countries took part in discussions about what should happen. Then the proposals were tabled for countries to consider then as it was agreed it became policy. Our government of the day rubber stamped it. (rightly or wrongly)

Oh I agree completely V - it's down to Westminster, the last government and now this one cannot duck the issue.

Rather than being led by the nose (or wallet/personal opportunity in many cases) perhaps they should have had the balls and good sense to think clearly about the consequences to this country of these grand schemes before signing up to them.

[Dishevelled Den]

Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....

Couldn't they do some sort of combined cycle system where the heat is recovered first, then the turbine extracts energy from the blast before the gas is burnt in a furnace?

Kevin

There is a similar system already in place, Kevin. It's known as the Recoverable Intake of Noxious Gases Preceding Ignition of Excess Colossal Exhaust.
 

Splendid.

[Kevin Wood]

I have a friend who works for National Grid balancing supply and demand so he sees the real, unadulterated figures, in real time.

He reckons wind power contributes the root of break all. It just results in fossil fuelled resources operating less efficiently.

Kevin

[Jimbob]

Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....

Couldn't they do some sort of combined cycle system where the heat is recovered first, then the turbine extracts energy from the blast before the gas is burnt in a furnace?

Kevin

There is a similar system already in place, Kevin. It's known as the Recoverable Intake of Noxious Gases Preceding Ignition of Excess Colossal Exhaust.
 

Tremendous   

[Nickbat]

I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often.
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.

I believe they still consume far more grid juice than the wind companies let on.  This link provides some technical background:
http://www.aweo.org/windconsumption.html

[TheBoy]

I have a friend who works for National Grid balancing supply and demand so he sees the real, unadulterated figures, in real time.

He reckons wind power contributes the root of break all. It just results in fossil fuelled resources operating less efficiently.
Kevin

But as that is an un-TreeHuggingHippy viewpoint, doesn't have the wankword Carbon Reduction, and is true, I suppose his view will be entirely ignore by those that don't know/understand, but do make the decisions.

kanWers.

[bluey]

Ages ago I had this idea of having small water wheels along rivers like the Severn that could provide multiple amounts of small energy pulses to the grid.  They could be low maintenance, standalone installations upriver in faster flowing areas that would spin almost continuously.  The power contribution they would make would obviously be very low compared to Hinkley though.

Actually, what if it were possible for local communities to generate power on a sell basis to the grid on a private-social enterprise basis so that profit made would be pumped back into projects that helped the area? You could have power generation from recycling for example that could make money for redevelopment.  So people have an incentive to be more proactive in recycling as they can see the end result in their effort. 

The other area I always wondered about was whether the gases escaping from sewage treatment farms and landfill sites was sufficient to be trapped and burned as part of a power generation system, or if the dehydrated solids from sewage also might be combustible.  Power from your poo! 

[Gaffers]

I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often.
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.

I believe they still consume far more grid juice than the wind companies let on.  This link provides some technical background:
http://www.aweo.org/windconsumption.html

I beleive there is an issue when it is very cold as turbines require to be heated slightly in order to prevent frost damage.  So on a calm winters day with no wind the turbines will actually consume power not provide it.

There is a lot of noise about this on yachting forums, esp with the new one proposed off of the Isle of Wight.  They have decided to install farms at a number of locations which directly interfere with recreational and commercial marine traffic.  In this busy area with string tides, options in the event of an emergency are reduced as a result of this farm.

[albitz]

I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often.
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.

I wouldnt claim to have any expertise on the subject Mark, so am happy to accept yours.

Nick that link you provided is very similar to the article I was referring to.
I referred to Hitchens in my original post. wrong glasses + Mail + Peter = Hitchens.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Ages ago I had this idea of having small water wheels along rivers like the Severn that could provide multiple amounts of small energy pulses to the grid.  They could be low maintenance, standalone installations upriver in faster flowing areas that would spin almost continuously.  The power contribution they would make would obviously be very low compared to Hinkley though.

Actually, what if it were possible for local communities to generate power on a sell basis to the grid on a private-social enterprise basis so that profit made would be pumped back into projects that helped the area? You could have power generation from recycling for example that could make money for redevelopment.  So people have an incentive to be more proactive in recycling as they can see the end result in their effort. 

The other area I always wondered about was whether the gases escaping from sewage treatment farms and landfill sites was sufficient to be trapped and burned as part of a power generation system, or if the dehydrated solids from sewage also might be combustible.  Power from your poo! 

We did a project called water wing which did just that

http://www.waterwingpower.com/wip4/

[bluey]

That looks a lot more advanced and cleverer than my idea of plonking a 4' vertical paddle wheel on a river bank! 

[Marks DTM Calib]

That looks a lot more advanced and cleverer than my idea of plonking a 4' vertical paddle wheel on a river bank! 

Yep, there is a basic control setup which can vary the pitch of the blades to extract max energy.

It worked very well (and was quite cheap to)

[bigegg]

I always wondered about was whether the gases escaping from sewage treatment farms and landfill sites was sufficient to be trapped and burned as part of a power generation system, or if the dehydrated solids from sewage also might be combustible.  Power from your poo! 

I used to work on a landfill site at Swillington, near Leeds.
There were, I think 5 or 6, small generating stations powered from the methane which supplied power to the National Grid.
I know they were nice and warm in the middle of winter - ideal for a quick kip.

[Varche]

After hydro electric power which has got to be the best "renewable power source" , I believe that the sea ofers the next best source - certainly for Britain.

We could have made a global killing if we had directed the likes of Dyson etc etc on the subject. In fact if someone wanted to be really adventurous the Pacific is higher than the Atlantic in Central America. A HEP station using that head of water in Panama City would be something else

[Marks DTM Calib]

After hydro electric power which has got to be the best "renewable power source" , I believe that the sea ofers the next best source - certainly for Britain.

We could have made a global killing if we had directed the likes of Dyson etc etc on the subject. In fact if someone wanted to be really adventurous the Pacific is higher than the Atlantic in Central America. A HEP station using that head of water in Panama City would be something else

Lol, why do I get visions of bright colours, poor design and short life....