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[Banjax]

Census has nothing to do with voting i though you would know that as you seem to think you know everything else
and some of us atually do the fighting not just sit on our arse bitching about it

bitching about what exactly?

you say we dont live in a democracy - explain please 

[mkirky]

Oh come on you cannot be that nieve

[MICHELINMAN]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

[bigegg]

you say we dont live in a democracy - explain please 

Technically we live in a republic - we vote for representatives who then vote on our behalf for or against legislation.

If we lived in a true democracy, EVERY law would need to pass a referendum before being added to the statute books.

Not a bad thing IMO, and reasonably easy to do with modern technology.

[mkirky]

correct

[Dishevelled Den]

In my view AV/PR will lead to insipid government where everyone and their granny will have their own view of what legislation should be formed and have the power to enforce it.

This invariably results in horse trading between the smaller groups (who will have a level of power far beyond their remit) and the larger parties dependent on their support to remain in government.

Taking the system used in Northern Ireland (a bastardised form of PR) there is little to recommend it.

There's been too much blanking about in this country trying to embrace every opinion known to man in an attempt to comply with the latest trend for 'inclusiveness'  It's about time that politicians started to govern and stopped blanking about with trendy ideas or Machiavellian desires to cement their position in government at all costs.

There is no substitute for strong, capable majority government.

[Banjax]

you say we dont live in a democracy - explain please 

Technically we live in a republic - we vote for representatives who then vote on our behalf for or against legislation.

If we lived in a true democracy, EVERY law would need to pass a referendum before being added to the statute books.

Not a bad thing IMO, and reasonably easy to do with modern technology.

we vote for representatives to pass laws on our behalf, if every law and regulation needed a referendum we'd never get anywhere, if you think those we've voted for arent doing what they said or making a pigs ear of it we have the oppurtunity to vote for anyone whos standing.

the only non democratic process is our membership of the EU, but even there if most people felt that strongly they could sweep an anti europe party like UKIP into power - so yes, unlike a lot of places in the world we do have democracy 

[mkirky]

I think in your mind its a democracy but alot of other people disagree ,we are all allowed our opinion and if you belive what you say you would have to agree

[bigegg]

I think it was Churchill who said that our system is the worst possible type of government.
except for all the others.
Personally, I think that Heinlein had a couple of good ideas:
Don't pass any law without a 2/3 majority
Repeal any law with a 1/3 majority.
Only allow people who have done a (voluntary) 2 year national service to vote. (or hold office).

I also, personally, think that we should have more segregation between the legislature (who make the laws), and the government (who run the country).

[bigegg]

you say we dont live in a democracy - explain please 

Technically we live in a republic - we vote for representatives who then vote on our behalf for or against legislation.

If we lived in a true democracy, EVERY law would need to pass a referendum before being added to the statute books.

Not a bad thing IMO, and reasonably easy to do with modern technology.

we vote for representatives to pass laws on our behalf, if every law and regulation needed a referendum we'd never get anywhere, if you think those we've voted for arent doing what they said or making a pigs ear of it we have the oppurtunity to vote for anyone whos standing.

the only non democratic process is our membership of the EU, but even there if most people felt that strongly they could sweep an anti europe party like UKIP into power - so yes, unlike a lot of places in the world we do have democracy 

agree in general BJ
but in response to the highlighted bit,
Hobson's Choice (or Ford's)
"You can have any colour you like. As long as it's black"
Doesn't matter who we vote for, it's always the government who gets in.

[Dishevelled Den]

I also, personally, think that we should have more segregation between the legislature (who make the laws), and the government (who run the country).

Interesting, would you expand on that a bit Egg?

[Nickbat]

I also, personally, think that we should have more segregation between the legislature (who make the laws), and the government (who run the country).

Interesting, would you expand on that a bit Egg?

Hmm! A large Egg.

I bought a dozen at Tesco today.

Sorry, Den. Been a long day. I know you'll forgive me. 

[albitz]

There are some interesting comments here by politicians who have in thenot too distant past condemned AV, but true to form are now telling us they believe it to be the future of British democracy.Not a belief or principle among them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371147/Hypocricy-Alternative-Vote-backers-changed-tune.html

[Dishevelled Den]

There are some interesting comments here by politicians who have in thenot too distant past condemned AV, but true to form are now telling us they believe it to be the future of British democracy.Not a belief or principle among them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371147/Hypocricy-Alternative-Vote-backers-changed-tune.html

As soon as I saw Huhne's fizzog, that did for me. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

[bigegg]

At the moment, we have one bloke who picks a team to manage each department of the government - the cabinet.
He's also the same bloke who (by wielding the "whip") decides what new laws are passed through parliament.
So he controls EVERYTHING, and can pass laws to make sure it stays that way.

why not say that the prime minister and cabinet cannot have any say in parliament about which laws are enacted.

There would have to be some things where the cabinet and parliament would need to interact - whose decision would it be to go to war?

but, ideally the prime minister and cabinet should be forced to work within laws which parliament set, and NOT be able to change laws to suit themselves.